[shadowibis]

Well said Nebraskan. Most people here realize that most Americans are decent people.

One has to wonder however as to the kind of change that will actually occur when George is gone... you calling him a cowboy was very polite. I would label him and his entire despicable entourage as war criminals.

I view the US like a runaway train that has the driver knocked-out and the throttle full-on. A happy ending to the story can probably only occur if the driver wakes up and stops disaster from happening. Welcome to Vive.

[Guest]

"It is not true that Natives committed genocide on each other, or wantonly murdered each other, because their strong sense of morality, religion, and honor strictly forbid that kind of behavior."

All Native peoples were/are different and have different cultures and histories. Every human group is just as capable of the same crimes, some more than others at different times in their history, due to circumstances combined with aspects of their culture. Natives were/are not saints. To imply that somehow all Natives were more moral, religious, or honorable than all "whites" or than any other "race" is totally wrong.

That doesn't make the crimes against them any less awful.

[whelan costen]

Well I don't really believe that brutallity, cruelty and sadistic beings only exist in one shade of skin colour, or nationality or religion; it is a human weakness, which is suppose to be curtailed by our human strengths. Unfortunately it would seem that one bad apple can spoil a whole group of people. Just as good deeds can be contagious, so it would seem with bad. It is society's role to encourage good and discourage negative behaviour but we aren't doing a very good job! IMO

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If I stand for my country today...will my country be here to stand for me tomorrow?

[michou]

 Nebraskan wrote: <i>"Don't condemn us all for the actions of a few or the actions of a cowboy president who will hopefully be unemployed by the end of November of this year."</i><p> It so happens that half of America supports the cowboy and his actions. Is this what's meant by a 'few' ? True, Americans are not '"bad". Neither were the majority of Germans during WWII, though that did not stop the murder of innocent victims by the millions, immolated in the name of politics. Those Germans were not any worse than Americans are today. Just disoriented I guess.

[whelan costen]

You know after rereading this post, I really think a great contribution to our history, human history, would be for a person, such as Janis, to write North American history from the native perspective. I hear your anger Janis and certainly when we look back on history it is painful, I don't think anyone can look back and not see their ancestors conquered, brutally in many cases and not feel injustice. It has happened over and over on every continent, but that does not make it less painful, especially in North America because many of the issues have never been resolved satisfactorily. You can look at Ireland for an example of violence that won't go away, because of wounds that will not heal.

When I first learned about the violence, the pain and suffering of my ancestors in Ireland, the conquering by the Spanish for a time, the potatoe famine, the brutality of the English towards the common people, I was angry. I felt pain as if it had happened to me. I felt cheated, all kinds of negative emotions, but eventually I did realize that my life , and who I am today is because of the struggles of my ancestors. They were determined to survive and so they sought a new life, here in Canada. They were forced from their country, so were my other ancestors, my grandfather was forced to flee Poland at the age of 16 yrs, with no family at all and never able to return. He died in his new country without ever seeing another member of his family again. I am not trying to diminish the horror that occured in conquering America by the Europeans, but every nation has gone through similar things, and none is without blame.

There must be accounting of truth, even if it is many years later, and even if it is from one perspective, as we have had one side of the story told, it would be great to hear the other and then perhaps true reconciliation could occur. Unresolved hate and pain, does not enhance future growth.(which I believe we all want.)

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If I stand for my country today...will my country be here to stand for me tomorrow?

[Nebraskan]

I didn't say that only a few supported Bush. I asked that America and it's military not be condemned for the actions of a few soldiers at Abu Ghraib compared to the thousands of soldiers who are doing their best in a situation they didn't ask to be in. I mentioned earlier that I have family members serving in Iraq. I know very well that there have been innocent lives lost, innocent victims wounded. That doesn't mean everyone in Iraq want us to leave. Even if the reason we are there is because of the arrogance of a president who wanted to strike at anyone he can get his hands on after 911. Saddam was an easy target. It would be even more disastrous for the U.S. and Great Britain to leave Iraq now. I know there are many soldiers and family members who would be glad if they were sent home. However, those same soldiers know that for the Iraqi's who are just trying to make a living and raise a family, the exit of the troops at this time would cause chaos and probably a civil war. So it's a no win situation. Leave or stay we have a mess to deal with.
Back to the original comparison of our country with WWII Germany though. How many trials or investigations happened in Germany before the war was over? I beleive we went to Iraq for the wrong reasons. I seen the movie Farenheit 911. It was a thought provoking movie. I think we have a lot of politicians who have lost focus of who they are elected to serve. All we can do is start to realize it and vote accordingly in the future. Would you agree though that with the mainstream media being owned and operated by corporations only out to serve their own interests, it's very difficult for anyone to get a honest view of what's going on america or the world. Media has sold itself out to the highest bidder. In order to be knowledgable on the real issues you have to filter out the spin from the major networks and try to find news that tells the truth.
One more thing. I'm glad that Canada hasn't experienced wholesale terrorism in your country. I honestly don't know if your country has experienced terrorism yet. Our media is very lacking in providing news in the outside world too. The best news I found was foreign networks during a stay in europe. I hope you all don't count america as a lost cause. Do canadians view us as an enemy neighbor? Do you think we wouldn't be there to help you if your country asked for it. I read an article, that strangely enough was from a canadian author that spoke of how America is expected and most the time helps those in need. He said though how odd it is that we aren't offered help when we're down and out. We just had the worst hurricane season in the history of recorded weather in Florida and surrounding states. I don't recall seeing any trucks from Canada or Mexico at distribution points helping provide water or food to the homeless. Maybe the folks in Florida don't need the help, but can you tell me if anyone from Canada even offered aid? If the chips were down, would your country aid our country or would you revel in our plight? Based on some of the extreme views on this website I wonder? Thanks for the the discussion, it's still more civil than many website I would encounter hre and now if I were to try to start a debate with pro-Bush supporters. With our new patriot act, I'm probably am being surveiled as you read this. That's why we need a new president as well as replacements for many other lifetime politicians who don't remember who elected them. Take care, I'll be back next year for some great fishing and to enjoy the beauty of your country.

[whelan costen]

Here is the problem Nebraska, we don't hate Americans, we know there are many of you, just like us caught in a terrible political situation. We have similar problems in Canada with elected officials forgetting who they serve. You are right to say that many soldier are over in Iraq doing their job, a job they did not ask for and are doing the best they can. I applaud them for their efforts, I also know that many of you did not support going in to Iraq in the first place, but how would we get the truth from media if you aren't? Same story different channel!

As for the hurricanes, Canadians are willing to help, however I don't think that our help was needed or has been asked for,(our news reported to stay away, due to road closures and not wanting more people in the area) you do have a population to support yourselves in times of need, do you not? I mean one state could help another, no?

Canada is also helping militarily to clean up a certain mess caused by your current admin over in Afganistan, so be sure Canadians are not all bad. We know that Americans are not all bad, we get alot of posts(US) from those who believe we are wimps because we didn't want to go to Iraq, even if we didn't believe the reasons, knew that it was about Oil and that bin Laden wasn't in Iraq, not to mention the WMD story was too much a fairy tale for us!

So welcome to vive, we appreciate hearing from a person willing to debate, and hopefully a person committed to peace. Also remember one voice does not represent all, just as we remember that when we get the anti-Canadian sentiment.

We don't like being bullied and that is what your admin is doing presently, to Canadians and to many other countries and that is the anti-sentiment here. You could say we aren't anti american, we are anti-bully, any flavour!

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If I stand for my country today...will my country be here to stand for me tomorrow?

[michou]

Atrocitites in Iraq are not restricted to Abu Ghraib. According to the latest news, I mean the ones not shown in the U.S, civilian deaths can be counted in the dozens after each American assaults. We are talking about women and children here. GWB calls them insurgents. If America was attacked, they would fight for their freedom the same way Iraqis are. There may not be proper information about this in the U.S media but the internet can provide the information Americans lack. Looking for it is a matter of choice. Too many Americans have chosen Faux News instead for their daily intake of unfair and biased news. The truth is out there, it is a question of wanting to look for it and not being complacent about the convenience of being spoonfed with propaganda.<p> It would not be more disastrous for America to leave Iraq now than it was a calamity to attack and invade it in the first place. The argument that America now has its hands tied to Iraq, for better or worse and ‘til death us do part, is brought to you curtesy of the American foreign office and the propaganda machine which supports it. 9/11 was not ‘wholesale ‘ terrorism. This attack was not made on America because of what it is but for what it does. American interventionist and imperialistic agenda did not begin with Bush nor will it end with Kerry. .</p><p> As for assistance due to the latest hurricanes, I am not aware if Canada did provide help this time around and if it was asked for. Canada has been there to help out when requested and 9/11 is an example. Thousands of Americans were stranded when their planes were diverted that day and hundreds of airplanes were diverted and advised to land in Canada. Hundreds of Canadians opened their home and privacy to the thousand of stranded Americans and they are still awaiting a ‘thank you’ from the American government. Haiti suffered much more than Americans from the latest hurricanes and the world quickly came together to provide them with assistance. Millions of dollars and human resources were immediately promised and deployed by governments the world over while America, the wealthiest nation on earth, pledged $50,000 while countries like Venezuela in comparison promised $1,8 million. It was only when the rest of the world showed its indignation at the US for its measly contribution that the US accepted to revise its allocation. .</p><p> I will stay with my first assessment. Americans are disoriented and do not know their place in this ever growing connected and interdependent world. They see themselves as leaders of the free world while in today’s reality, much of the world sees them as schoolyard bullies.

[Jim Callaghan]

If I'm not mistaken, Hydro One from Ontario sent crews down to Florida to help restore power, since it was such a massive problem with power lines down everywhere.

I don't expect any thank-yous for that, it's the civilized thing to do.


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"One crisis at a time is life's motto" - Carl Sagan
Jim Callaghan
Minden, Ontario
705-286-1860
www.misterc.ca

[Janis Schmidt]

Of course, you are right. The point being that America has not learned from any past mistakes, nor have they even admitted they were mistakes, as evidenced by the debachle in Iraq.

[Janis Schmidt]

Some accounting for the truth. I think this is what eats away at Natives. The fact that there has been no accounting. Statistics, according to Noam Chomsky and others, place the Native population of North America somewhere between 50 and 75 million people. By 1890, we have less than one million Natives left. Warlike? Had their little battles? Or was it genocide? I have presented you with facts. You might regard this as anger. I regard it as facts. And the facts do speak for themselves. I notice a lot of touchiness regarding the slaughter of Indians, like it didn't really happen. I'm sorry. It did. And the world is a much worse place because of it.

All in all, I find your comments thought provoking.

[Guest]

50 to 75 million stone-age tribespeople living in North America? get a grip. There were no cities, no technology, no infrastructure of any sort. Impossible. But the native industry can keep making up this stuff, it's certainly amusing.

[Dr Caleb]

Show me the census data for North America from 1251CE. Or 5247 BCE.<p> You have no more proof to back up your claims than anyone else. Janis and First Nations in general rely on facts from Native Oral traditions and history. That makes them no less accurate than your assumption that such a population could not exist.<p> <p>---<br>"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill <br />

[Janis Schmidt]

That anyone is in denial of this documented fact, documented by the great linguist and statistition, Noam Chomsky, and the book, WHY DO THEY HATE AMERICANS (forgot the authors), is testimony to the enormous ignorance of the EuroAmerican white man, coupled with his incredible arrogance really adds up to one ugly creature. I don't think this is what the humanists had in mind when they said, "Man is the measure of all things."

Be that as it may, there are still a good number of white people who are intelligent, thinking people, and who are sincerely trying to lend a helping hand to Native Americans.

It's just that the real "evil-doers" (I like that word, don't you?) seem to be in charge of ruining this planet and then turn around and blame Tribal people for the problem.

That's as stupid as blaming the Arabs for 9-11 when the Bush Cartel most likely planned the whole thing so as to scare the hell out of the American public, thereby giving cause to turn America into a police state and to kill thousands of brown people over in the Middle East, at the same time stealing their oil, then round up hapless victims, incarcerate them, torture them, abuse them.

Then there's a fair number of people who say, "We have to stay the course." Yeah, right. Like there's dead bodies laying all over in the bank, and the depositors are counterattacking, but, what the hell? the robbery is already in progress; may as well stay the course.

[Guest]

Sorry for not commenting sooner to your suggestion. I have been writing now, for the past year, telling parts of the story, starting with the frame-up by the Feds to falsely accuse Arlo Looking Cloud of a 30 year old murder. For my efforts, of course, I was evicted, arrested, jailed, and banned from the Reservation. When I returned because the full bloods opened their homes to me, to fight on now another level, the corrupt criminals sent in the thugs to steal my documents, mess up my computer, assault me, and threaten me with a knife. Just lately, they are attacking my means of support by having some students making complaints that I bring politics into the classroom, which I am very careful not to do, because I know what these slimy bastards are capable of. In short, I keep writing, but my time and office is severely limited. What I do manage to write, though, seems to have an impact. Thank you for your support.