[Newsbot]

Title: U.S. to review pipeline's permit process
Written By: NAUWATCH
Date: Tuesday, November 08 at 19:01
By Nathan Vanderklippe
The U.S. government has opened a review of Keystone XL’s approval process, adding to the series of obstacles facing the controversial pipeline project barely a month before TransCanada Corp. (TRP-T 41.65 -0.72-1.70%) hopes to gain clearance.
The $7-billion Keystone XL project is planned to carry vast volumes of oil sands crude from Alberta to the U.S. Gulf Coast.
The project’s U.S. government approval was once seen as a near-certainty by industry and political leaders alike, but is beginning to come into question amid a multipronged attack on the pipeline. At the very least, the timeline for an approval decision is now increasingly in doubt, amid a barrage of legal and legislative roadblocks, and signals from the State Department that it might miss its December deadline.
read full article http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-in ... nt=2228146
 
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[NAUWATCH]

TransAlta manipulated Alberta electricity market last fall, offers to pay fines
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/transalta-mani ... 41895.html

[RickW]

The US decided that Keystone XL needs to be re-routed.........TransCanada should have know better than to run their pipeline across the Ogallala AquiferL
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greensp ... ismay.html

[NAUWATCH]

Harper disappointed with u.s. pipeline
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20 ... ne-111110/

[Timetrvlr]

Aside from being an environmental disaster waiting to happen, it would export Canadian refinery jobs to Texas. Couldn't a refinery be built in Canada and finished petroleum products be sold at the American border? I'm not in favour of raw log exports either for the same reasons.

[RickW]

Timetrvlr wrote:

Aside from being an environmental disaster waiting to happen, it would export Canadian refinery jobs to Texas. Couldn't a refinery be built in Canada and finished petroleum products be sold at the American border? I'm not in favour of raw log exports either for the same reasons.

Harper Conservatives don't give a damn about jobs at home.

[Brent Swain]

RickW wrote:

Timetrvlr wrote:

Aside from being an environmental disaster waiting to happen, it would export Canadian refinery jobs to Texas. Couldn't a refinery be built in Canada and finished petroleum products be sold at the American border? I'm not in favour of raw log exports either for the same reasons.

Harper Conservatives don't give a damn about jobs at home.

Their thinking is like that of the BC Liberals, who sent the ship building jobs of BC ferries to Germany, while BC ship yards are in danger of becomming extinct.
Canada now sends more forest products to China than Russia. Why? Russia has banned raw log exports.
Refining the oil in to gas before shipping it in pipelines, drastically reduces the danger of a spill, as gas and diesel are far less environmentaly dangerous than crude oil. It evaporates, and is far easier to clean up.

[Caelon]

Brent Swain wrote:

Their thinking is like that of the BC Liberals, who sent the ship building jobs of BC ferries to Germany, while BC ship yards are in danger of becomming extinct.
Canada now sends more forest products to China than Russia. Why? Russia has banned raw log exports.
Refining the oil in to gas before shipping it in pipelines, drastically reduces the danger of a spill, as gas and diesel are far less environmentaly dangerous than crude oil. It evaporates, and is far easier to clean up.

You forgot one TINY LITTLE detail. There is insufficient refining capacity in western Canada to be able to ship more refined product to the US or anywhere else. Now all you need to do is find someone with $20 billion (that right billion) to invest in a new refinery and the time to build one. Oh by the way Shell, Peto Canada and Esso have all stated it is too much money to risk with the political uncertainty.

[Dr Caleb]

Caelon wrote:

Brent Swain wrote:

Their thinking is like that of the BC Liberals, who sent the ship building jobs of BC ferries to Germany, while BC ship yards are in danger of becomming extinct.
Canada now sends more forest products to China than Russia. Why? Russia has banned raw log exports.
Refining the oil in to gas before shipping it in pipelines, drastically reduces the danger of a spill, as gas and diesel are far less environmentaly dangerous than crude oil. It evaporates, and is far easier to clean up.

You forgot one TINY LITTLE detail. There is insufficient refining capacity in western Canada to be able to ship more refined product to the US or anywhere else. Now all you need to do is find someone with $20 billion (that right billion) to invest in a new refinery and the time to build one. Oh by the way Shell, Peto Canada and Esso have all stated it is too much money to risk with the political uncertainty.

One TINY LITTLE detail, The Governement of Alberta is building a new refinery to process the bitumen we recieve as part of the new oilsands royalty regime.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/ ... L620110216

For $5 Billion.

[Caelon]

Dr Caleb wrote:

One TINY LITTLE detail, The Governement of Alberta is building a new refinery to process the bitumen we recieve as part of the new oilsands royalty regime.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/ ... L620110216

For $5 Billion.

Thanks I missed this announcement. The $5 billion seems a little light from any number I have heard quoted by the big 3, but so much the better if they build it on budget and on time. We desperately need another refinery in western Canada to reduce the risk of an unscheduled shutdown of one of the existing ones. e.g. diesel is currently on allocation to retailers due to short supply and of course comes with a corresponding increase in price.

[herbie]

So all those abandoned refineries around Burnaby are worth $100 billion?
I callbullshit.

And of course if the buyers were there because there was less opposition to a gas pipeline, they'd build $50 billion dollar Alberta refineries if there was money to be made.

[Caelon]

herbie wrote:

So all those abandoned refineries around Burnaby are worth $100 billion?
I callbullshit.

And of course if the buyers were there because there was less opposition to a gas pipeline, they'd build $50 billion dollar Alberta refineries if there was money to be made.

Those were mothballed over 20 years ago when the combination of environmental rules, location aand cost of upgrading to current standards was cost prohibitive. I remeber one that was located uphill from the waterway. Any large leak would have gone directly into the water creating a huge disaster. They are now so far out of date anything left behind is scrap metal and not worth a billion let alone $100 billion.

Companies will invest large sums on certainties. The political climate makes investing the sum for a 150,000 barrel a day refinery too risky. It is contingent on pipleines that need to be approved and built. Chicken and egg syndrome.

[herbie]

They were also mothballed and turned into tank farms because the oil IS refined in Alberta and gasoline travels down the pipe. Only one pipe carries crude now.
This is exactly how it could be done for export.

[RickW]

[quote="CaelonCompanies will invest large sums on certainties.[/quote]

Gee! What ever happened to the spirit of free enterprise - you know, the one that we are told as citizens that those who take the biggest risks gather the greatest profits?

[Caelon]

herbie wrote:

They were also mothballed and turned into tank farms because the oil IS refined in Alberta and gasoline travels down the pipe. Only one pipe carries crude now.
This is exactly how it could be done for export.

Yes the refining was moved back to Alberta and the refineries were upgraded over time for increased capacity and environmental regulation. So refined gas and diesel is shipped to terminals in BC (eg Kamloops and Vancouver) and distributed from there. The small Husky refinery in PG could not meet the demand of the lower mainland.

I am a little unclear of your intent on the export comment so instead of me making a false assumption could you expand your comment a bit?