[Reverend Blair]

If you look at the science...the real science done by those without ties to the oil companies...you will find that there is a consensus among the vast majority of scientists that climate change is happening and is at least partially caused by our actions.<br /> <br /> There is debate within the scientific community as to the amount of warming, the time-line, the extent of our involvement, and how to deal with it. Those who would deny this science have a tendency to, just like those who deny evolution, mine the scientific data and present any debate as proof that scientists don't agree. How should I put this? Oh yeah...the naysayers are lying. Worse yet, they've fooled a lot of people.

[FreeWoman]

Perturbed:<br /> <br /> I was just wondering what you meant by your following statement: <br /> <br /> "No matter how I look at the treaty and no matter what the treaty purports to achieve, it still looks like a wealth redistribution scheme disguised as a plan to save us from ourselves."<br /> <br /> How exactly do you see the Kyoto Plan as a wealth redistribution scheme?<br /> <br /> <br />

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= FreeWoman] Perturbed:<br /> <br /> I was just wondering what you meant by your following statement: <br /> <br /> "No matter how I look at the treaty and no matter what the treaty purports to achieve, it still looks like a wealth redistribution scheme disguised as a plan to save us from ourselves."<br /> <br /> How exactly do you see the Kyoto Plan as a wealth redistribution scheme?<br /> <br /> <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> If you look again that was the comment of the person who wrote the opinion piece on the Canada Free Press website.<br /> <br /> I happen to agree because Kyoto exempts The Unites States and China--the world's two biggest polluters. Production will be moved to China--a low wage country with few environmental standards. We will lose jobs regardless, but Kyoto will do little to save our environment IMO.

[Reverend Blair]

China is due to come on board in 2012 though, Perturbed. We'll have to wait and see if that actually happens. <br /> <br /> They are already looking for alternative energies because they haven't got enough of the traditional ones though. They are a natural market for any clean energy technologies we have to sell anyway, not because it's clean, but because they are so energy hungry. Same with India.<br /> <br /> The US will likely hop on board when they realise they are becoming a technological backwater. <br /> <br /> Even without China and the US we need to meet our Kyoto targets. It will be good for our economy in the long run, it's our mess we need to worry about, and somebody has to start someplace.

[Guest]

wrong again<br /> <br /> there is wealth redistribution in Kyoto.Its in "the Convention" (UNFCCC)<br /> Basically it states that suppression is no longer acceptable and just go to Country that wish's to develope technology. wealth redistribution at its best. <br /> <br /> <br /> UNITED NATIONS FRAMEWORK CONVENTION ON CLIMATE CHANGE<br /> <br /> 4. Developing country Parties may, on a voluntary basis,<br /> propose projects for financing, including specific<br /> technologies, materials, equipment, techniques or practices<br /> 24<br /> that would be needed to implement such projects, along with,<br /> if possible, an estimate of all incremental costs, of the<br /> reductions of emissions and increments of removals of<br /> greenhouse gases, as well as an estimate of the consequent<br /> benefits.<br /> <br /> IN WITNESS WHEREOF the undersigned, being duly authorized<br /> to that effect, have signed this Convention.<br /> DONE at New York this ninth day of May one thousand nine<br /> hundred and ninety-two.<br /> 32<br /> Annex I<br /> Australia<br /> Austria<br /> Belarusa/<br /> Belgium<br /> Bulgariaa/<br /> Canada<br /> Czechoslovakiaa/<br /> Denmark<br /> European Economic Community<br /> Estoniaa/<br /> Finland<br /> France<br /> Germany<br /> Greece<br /> Hungarya/<br /> Iceland<br /> Ireland<br /> Italy<br /> Japan<br /> Latviaa/<br /> Lithuaniaa/<br /> Luxembourg<br /> Netherlands<br /> New Zealand<br /> Norway<br /> Polanda/<br /> Portugal<br /> Romaniaa/<br /> Russian Federationa/<br /> Spain<br /> Sweden<br /> Switzerland<br /> Turkey<br /> Ukrainea/<br /> United Kingdom of Great<br /> Britain and Northern Ireland<br /> United States of America<br /> _________________________________<br /> a/ Countries that are undergoing the process of transition<br /> to a market economy.<br /> 33<br /> Annex II<br /> Australia<br /> Austria<br /> Belgium<br /> Canada<br /> Denmark<br /> European Economic Community<br /> Finland<br /> France<br /> Germany<br /> Greece<br /> Iceland<br /> Ireland<br /> Italy<br /> Japan<br /> Luxembourg<br /> Netherlands<br /> New Zealand<br /> Norway<br /> Portugal<br /> Spain<br /> Sweden<br /> Switzerland<br /> Turkey<br /> United Kingdom of Great<br /> Britain and Northern Ireland<br /> United States of America

[This]

Reverend Blair I have some basic facts that can answer your point about observable global warming. Although apparently the UN is now predicting global cooling this year according to BBC story on this site, there are several non human factors that affect our climate. Forgive me for pasting in these points from another thread I was on, but they are relevant I think:


-Earth has been experiencing increased volcanic activity this past decade. 70% of volcanoes are under water, hot lava heats up the oceans causing increased evaporation - more rain and snow. Warmer oceans melt ice

-Sun magnetic strength varies over time, which corresponds pretty much directly with temperatures here on Earth. Cities are artificially hot for several reasons, real temperatures on land should be measured away from them rurally. Hottest rural decade past century was the 1930's in NA, hottest year was 1936

-CO2 provides much needed 'greenhouse effect' in our atmosphere on the order of 6 degrees warming. Nothing humans do will affect this 6 degrees warming because of the huge and instantaneous role the oceans play in absorbing or releasing CO2 depending on their temperature. CO2 is part of the natural carbon cycle where trees and vegetation grow quicker with a higher concentration. CO2 has never been a pollutant, and plans to sequester it have got to be the stupidest thing you will ever hear of this century.


-Atmospheric CO2 levels on Earth have been as much as 17 times higher than the current 380ppm. If increased C02 causes warming, why did the Earth go in to an Ice Age at levels 10 times of today? A little bit of CO2 goes a long way, for giving us the 6 degrees warming. But more CO2, a lot more, will only give us another degree. But since humans and our industry only give off 3% of the world's CO2 to begin with, this whole "reduce greenhouse gas emissions" issue is a complete utter farce

-you can't tax a volcano, which along with bacteria dwarf human CO2 emissions

[sasquatch2]

Facts and science mean nothing to zealots who confuse fraud and computer generated images (models) with science.
Gore was attributing the Myanmar Cyclone to CO2 AGW, because of the warmer oceans which NASA's rectal thermometer the ARGOs system of 3000 robot buoys has not detected......other than a slight cooling.

Only an idiot continues this GW nonsense and supports KYOTO when it has now been established by even the IPCC that the previously CO2 warming was an EL NINO a decade ago. That's right there was no CO2 warming, no consensus, and KYOTO is gone with the wind.

China is not doing anything about KYOTO anytime---any year, other than find MORE energy sources---regardless their "green" content. Same with India.

GW is the pet rock fad of the 90's. The movie sucked---that's all it was.

SUCKER

[harrisandreson]

I have gone through the no of article on global warming but i would say that It is becoming difficult to keep pace with the speed at which the global warming scam is now unravelling.the American writer Frank Mitloehner has said that , an air quality expert at the University of California at Davis, has denounced such scare-mongering as “scientifically inaccurate”. The true ratio, he concludes, is just 3 per cent of greenhouse gas emissions in America are attributable to rearing of cattle and pigs, compared with 26 per cent from transport.I am of the opinion that if today we are not going to change the Global warming issue then we have to face the no. of difficulties in future time being. Let's hope that every one of us would pay a remarkable attention towards this environmental issue.Have a serious attention please, Only one tree from yourself can put the world on the green side.