[Reverend Blair]

I know a lot of people who lose money driving tractors around fields every year so they can spend the winter working off the farm to pay the bills. It'd be good if they could make a living growing crops for bio-fuel.

[badsector]

OK, I never thought of it that way but you are right. It could potentially resolve the ongoing farm crises.

[h.f. wolff]

I wonder why so many knowledgable individuals are so hung-up on fuel cells for automotive propulsion?<br /> <br /> In California a small company built a battery powered sports car with an acceleration of 0 to 100 Kph in under 4 seconds, and a cruising range of about 500 Km at a speed of 120 Kph or so. (I did the conversions mentally from US units)<br /> <br /> The batteries used are Lithium-Polymer cells, the same battery technology now used in lap-top computers, cell phones, I-pods, etc.<br /> <br /> While the production of hydrogen for use in fuel cells is not a problem, the distribution is. Ordinary carbon steel pipelines and storage cylinders do not stand up to compressed hydrogen for very long.<br /> <br /> However, almost all households are equipped to recharge propulsion batteries!<br /> <br /> Consider: Electric stoves and clothers dryers are in use practically everywhere, as is the infrastructure to produce and conduct the electric power to these appliances.<br /> <br /> During the off-hours of heavy appliance use, say 10PM to 6AM this generating capacity could be utilized to recharge the propulsion batteries of electrically powered cars.<br /> <br /> At 500 Km plus range the cells would not require charging every night.<br /> <br /> A cost comparison has shown that the fuelling costs of an electrically powered vehicle is less than 1/10 that of a gasoline or Diesel fuel powered equivalent.<br /> <br /> Because of the greater utilization of electric generating stations and distribution networks this ought to reduce the cost of electric power generally, provided it is generated by hydro or nuclear energy. Fossil fuel powered generating stations would be less cost-effective in this application.<br /> <br /> Lithium-Polymer cells are produced in Canada; they are still expensive since small quantities have to be purchased from distributors. The cells are also quite "touchy" to recharging and require sophisticated re-charge circuitry.<br /> <br /> Nonetheless, I am convinced that this is the way to go, for the reasons stated above. Especially for cars used primarily in the cities. I am surprised that Taxi operators and delivery firms do not make more use of this technology. Even city busses could be powered electrically with these cells, which are made in a large variety of ampere-hour sizes. As for size and weight of these cells: Compared to lead-acid cells (as used for automotive start batteries) Lithium-Polimer cells are MUCH lighter and SMALLER for the same Watt-Hour energy storage capacity.<br /> <br /> H.F. Wolff

[badsector]

The main problem with electric cars is that the extention cords are too short (just kidding). However, cold weather would substantially reduce the mileage and reliability of an electric car. Eventhough we have had mild winters in Canada for 5 or 6 years, I don't think global warming is fast enough to phase out winter any time soon (at least I hope not - I love winter). I wonder if there is a solution for the negative effects of subzero temperatures to batteries. Personally, I would love to see electric cars everywhere.

[Brother Jonathan]

h.f.,<br /> <br /> perhaps you’re thinking of <a href="http://www.acpropulsion.com/">AC Propulsion</a>’s tzero? If so, then the major stumbling block is currently cost, since it sells for over 200,000 USD. (Its “power plant” is a set of over 6,000 Li-ion laptop batteries!) Its cruising range is also dependent upon speed travelled; at 120 km/hr the range will be closer to 400 km.<br /> <br /> The fuel cost comparison will be highly dependent upon location and the vehicles being compared; for example, my electricity costs are probably at least double yours, and my gasoline costs are probably about 15 – 20% less than yours (the latter due to differing excise levels). The fuel cost comparison of an electric vehicle against a Hummer will look much different than against a diesel Golf.<br /> <br /> Perhaps urban transportation businesses are waiting for a reliable servicing network before making the plunge? (A bit of chicken-and-egg there, but nonetheless a factor.)

[h.f. wolff]

Any custom built car will cost big bucks.<br /> <br /> The battery for the Tzero consists of 67oo individual cells as are found in a typical laptop computer.<br /> <br /> At a retail cost of $5 to $6 CDN per cell.......we're talking BIG bucks for the battery alone!<br /> <br /> The electric motors and controls are commercially available.<br /> <br /> The cost of the battery is the REAL problem. I don't see why an electric cell that is less than 3/4" dia. x <br /> 2 9/16" long should be so expensive, especially now that they are produced in the millions.<br /> <br /> If retail cost of the cell could be reduced to say $0.50 each, or $3000 for 6,000 cells, then a small electric city car would be viable. The weight of a 6,000 cell battery would be about 270 Kg or 600 lb., a weight not out-of-line as compared to the gas engine, transmission, differential, fuel, and ancilliary equipment.<br /> <br /> The operating costs were based on $0.10 per KWH of electric power.<br /> <br /> Heating the interior in the winter could be accomplished with a heater based on the ones found in old beetles (VW). These burned a small amount of gasoline for instant heat. They also worked very well on kerosene. A 2 to 5 litre tank would probably suffice for heating purposes.<br /> <br /> Apart from the low operating costs the attraction is that the refuelling infrastructure is already in place.<br /> <br /> H.F. Wolff

[Brent Swain]

Does anyone have any patents on fuel cells , or are they public domain? How long ago were they invented?<br /> I saw quotes for a marine fuel cell to replace a battery for $6500. Couple that with an electric motor and batteries along with a few solar panels and a wind generator and you are not far off the price of a new diesel.Using the fuel cell only as a backup when you haven't been able to stow away enough energy with the solar panels and wind generator , will drastically minimise the use of fuel.<br /> It will be a huge leap foreward when they replace the infernal combustion engine in the new hybrids with fuel cells.<br /> Brent

[h.f. wolff]

Brent,<br /> <br /> It would already be a big step forward if the operator of a hybrid vehicle had some choice in its operation.<br /> <br /> At the present time the operator has to rely on the engine-driven generator to re-charge the batteries.<br /> <br /> This is a totally idiotic requirement if the vehicle is used for short drives around town.<br /> <br /> It would be MUCH cheaper and cleaner if the hybrid's batteries could be re-charged at home by plugging in a charger connected to the clother dryer / elevtric stove outlet.<br /> <br /> On long trips of course the engine/generator is necessary because of the limited driving range of the on-board batteries; for short hops in the city it makes perfect sense to re-charge the batteries at home by hook-up to the electric grid.<br /> <br /> I truly do not understand why this is not a standard feature on hybrids. Until such time that this feature is offered I will never buy a hybrid.<br /> <br /> H.F. Wolff