[Reverend Blair]

I grew up with three brothers. That meant a lot of sharing. It also meant that I knew what was mine and wasn't afraid to stand up and say so. Actually, sometimes I was very afraid and sometimes I got the crap beat out of me. Hell, there's even a chance that I was wrong once or twice. I stood up though. I think it's about time that our leaders did the same.

[Kory Yamashita]

[QUOTE]It is no wonder that the poll also shows an overwhelming majority of Canadians and Americans want both countries to create a common set of rules that will standardize how energy resources are developed, transported and sold in North America.[/QUOTE] </p> What exactly is an "overwhelming majority"?? I've taken some statistics in school, as well as news article-based philosophy course that focused on claims like that. So they have precise numbers for every statistic except that one? Just an "overwhelming majority"? What a horrenously biased and misleading article. </p> I've never had a discussion with any Canadian who favours opening up free access to our energy. And I rant about energy all the time. </P> Martin's pretty cocky with his as-of-yet still unelected leadership. Like he takes credit for everything good that happened during his reign as finance minister, but he somehow wasn't involved in the major finance scandal that occurred during that time? I hope something happens that allows for Canadians to get some leadership that actually represents public opinion. Maybe then we could keep our energy and make the Americans actually recognize what they're doing to the environment, how they consume more energy than exists. And if it happens in the US, every country will recognize the need to check energy consumption. Right now Canada has a tool that will improve the world immensely if we keep it to ourselves. Plus, we'd get to keep our rivers and avert landslide disasters that hydro dams cause. </P> I wish Martin would be a patriot and endorse CANADIAN ideas for once.

[Poz]

I agree with Susan on how it is difficult to decide where to disagree with this article. Should it be that they cite a poll from their own business organization? Or should it be that they are the CEOs of an Oil/Gas corporation and an Oil/Gas transportation corporation? Oh and need I mention all three corporations are financial supporters of Martin? Anyway now Im rambling. The frightening part of this article is that it is appearing in a nationally respected newspaper that MANY people take the articles as fact... not opinion. The problem is that many people will read this article and others like it any take it for face value and not analyze and critique it; the problem is that we have become ignorant and uneducated in just how intertwined the state and business are. This is, of course, a very Marxist thing to say but Marx was an intelligent and brilliant person and even prophetic. I could probably write an essay critiqueing this article... but that would be too easy

[sthompson]

And notice the guys that wrote it are Canadians who are part of an institute named after a US President and built on his ideals...

[Reverend Blair]

Hey, maybe we should get a P.E.T. Institute going in Washington. Something I'm wondering about is what would happen if we turned the taps off? How would the US react if we said, "Well, we need our electricity from Manitoba and Quebec to power Ontario and we really need our fossil fuels to keep our houses warm?" How would the US react to that and how would the Canadian oil business react to that? We are one of the few countries in the world with the resources to be truly self-sufficient. What would happen if we tried it?

[whelan costen]

The first question that comes to mind is, do we actually have a Canadian Oil sector, I mean the majority of our large corporations especially oil are owned by the U.S. so how could be ever turn the taps off? Hence your experiment would never happen, and the U.S. is now considering burning coal again, cause it was so great the first time...

[Reverend Blair]

There are many reasons why the experiment would never happen, Kevin. Foreign ownership is one of them, a big one. I think it still needs to be discussed though...new ideas can still come out of unlikely hypothetical situations.

[Milton]

I think they are distorting the question, I think the gist of the question was "a common set of rules", which was why the vote for it was high. The question implied a renegotiation of treaties affecting energy. They simply interpreted and framed it so that it supported their agenda cause the polls I've seen recently say that Canadians don't want more foriegn ownership of resources or anything else. Canadians wanted the energy portion of NAFTA,( chapter 11), renegotiated and Martin co-wrote the red book which promised,( amongst other things), to renegotiate this if the Liberals were elected. They were elected and no renegotiation took place and the red book contract with Canadians went down the rat hole and was never referred to by job fearing journalists at newspapers, radio or TV stations again. The reason the electrical grid went down was because some private corporation who had purchased the public utility did not do proper maintenance. The job fearing journalists immediately jumped on Ontario Hydro's back, screaming that this is what happens when you don't recognize the "profit principle". When it was disclosed that it was indeed a private contractors fault then it suddenly came to light that a hacker could have infected the power co.s computers and so this is terrorism of the most heinous kind. Then John Manley, the liberal water carrier, is appointed to do some kind of white wash bullshit research which shows, surprise!!!, that Ontario needs more power plants and private enterprise should be allowed to dip its little beak in to the trough cause the province doesn't have enough money. The fact that the province can borrow money for less than any private corp. could was not mentioned by any of the astute business analysts who probably still think Nortel's accounting policies are tickety boo. All the power analysis studies that I have seen say that Ontario has more than enough power to take care of Ontario and have some left over for sale to the US but the politicians should quit signing new delivery contracts. It is the same old story with the same old polimurdering busithugs fleecing the public and asking for investiture into the order of Canada as well.

[Stymiest]

problem is that energy we sell too the States makes us filthy rich do you knbow how much they pay for a single megawatt of power. <br /> <br />I worked at a coal fired plant in New Brunswick for the past 2 years and know pretty much the ins and outs of the power industry and let me tell you selling our energy too the States isn't necessarily a bad thing. Especially here considering our fuel all comes from foreign countries so we lose nothing. (We could burn canadian fuel but it doesn't burn as well thus lowering our efficiency making it more expensive). <br /> <br />NB Power exports upto 1000Mw of power to Maine Power Corporation a day and we are making millions of dollars a day doing it. Selling Energy to our neighbors is great for us and great for them. it gives us extra cash to expand our infrastructure further and invest in energy needs of the future.

[whelan costen]

Stymiest, you are contradicting yourself, on another post you claim that the maritimes are devastated and very poor, now you say they are making millions a day, which is it? Who is making the millions a day and is it helping the average citizen? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/confused.gif' alt='Confused'>

[whelan costen]

Stymiest quote: 'I worked at a coal fired plant in New Brunswick for the past 2 years and know pretty much the ins and outs of the power industry and let me tell you selling our energy too the States isn't necessarily a bad thing. Especially here considering our fuel all comes from foreign countries so we lose nothing. (We could burn canadian fuel but it doesn't burn as well thus lowering our efficiency making it more expensive).' <br /> <br />Please explain, 'our fuel all comes from foreign countries so we lose nothing.' <br /> <br />I am not following your post. It's probably just me, but could you elaborate on this, please?

[Stymiest]

[QUOTE BY= whelan costen] Stymiest quote: 'I worked at a coal fired plant in New Brunswick for the past 2 years and know pretty much the ins and outs of the power industry and let me tell you selling our energy too the States isn't necessarily a bad thing. Especially here considering our fuel all comes from foreign countries so we lose nothing. (We could burn canadian fuel but it doesn't burn as well thus lowering our efficiency making it more expensive).' <br /> <br />Please explain, 'our fuel all comes from foreign countries so we lose nothing.' <br /> <br />I am not following your post. It's probably just me, but could you elaborate on this, please?[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />sorry for that. At the plant I worked and at most Powr Stations in New Brunswick we burn light fuel oil (Orimulsion) or Coal. I worked at a coal burning plant. Now NB Power does own its own coal source in Minto Bew brunswick (The company is called NB Coal). This is set to close soon though as it is only used at the Minto generating station which is being decomissioned later this year. <br /> <br />Now the power station I worked at is a 480Mw single turbine thermal generating station which uses coal too heat its boiler. We burn 200 tonnes of coal per hour at this plant. Huge amounts of this fuel is needed to fuel our plant. <br /> <br />The reason NB Power does not use Canadian coal is the fact that a lot of it is complete shit. Minto coal has a very high BTU rate which means it burns very well but the problem is the coal has lots of air pockets in it which makes it very combustible. This makes the coal veyr hard to store and a lot of it just burns up sitting in the yard waiting to be put into the boiler to creat energy. This creates inefficencies with the plant and makes it very costly too burn Canadian coal due to its very very shitty geological makeup. <br /> <br />So the NB Power uses Colombian coal in its too fuel its turbines. We also use venezuelan and south african from time to time as we need too make sure we can burn other sources so Colombia doesn't think they have a monopoly or if their country breaks out into civil war etc. <br /> <br />NB Power also uses petroleum Coke in limited quantities as its an offset of petroleum products and it burns veyr veyr well and with our environmental systems their is little too no pollution generated from the burning of coal. <br /> <br />NB Power also uses Orimulsion (A light fuel oil provided by Venezuela) which is very cheap too buy and is highly efficient in our boilers. So NB Power is not using any energy sources from Canada thus we keep our valuable resources for other uses and sell our energy too the United States and reap the profits. You don;t know how much money we make off energy exports to the United States. Hydro Quebec makes literally 10 of billions of dollars a year off energy exports too New York and the Eastern United States a year and they are the 2nd largest power company in North America. Do you see where I am making the connection power companies are burning other comapnies fuel and using it too produce energy which we then sell and make billions of dollars off of a year. Canada is one of the largest energy producers in the world and if you think we are the ones using it your wrong NB power exports almost 1/3 of its power we make too the United States and our generation capacity is small compared too a company like Hydro Quebec. <br /> <br />So as you can see its a global world and everything is interconnected thats why we cannot afford too play isolationist policy on the United States because we would suffer from it drastically. <br /> <br />Oh and about me being a hypocrit I don't know how the argument you made makes any sense just because a certain organization is doing well doesn't mean a part of the country is going to improve in any way or form. if we based all our facts on that Atlantic Canada would be the richest just look at the Irving Family. When you say millinos of dolalrs you realize thats pocket change right <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'>

[z_whalen]

Whelan, <br /> <br />The poverty problem in NB is due mostly to high unemployment rates. I don't understand how NB power making millions is going to help solve unemployment; it's not making more jobs. The problem is getting more employers to come to NB and offer a fair deal to workers.

[Stymiest]

[QUOTE BY= z_whalen] Whelan, <br /> <br />The poverty problem in NB is due mostly to high unemployment rates. I don't understand how NB power making millions is going to help solve unemployment; it's not making more jobs. The problem is getting more employers to come to NB and offer a fair deal to workers.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />and get some high paying jobs aswell. Most jobs in new Brunswick are jobs where u can work at a call center. Saint John is the only real city with a huge industrial base in new Brunswick and even that is start to dwindle. Ship building is dying and other industries are closing aswell.

[whelan costen]

Stymiest: 'Oh and about me being a hypocrit I don't know how the argument you made makes any sense just because a certain organization is doing well doesn't mean a part of the country is going to improve in any way or form. if we based all our facts on that Atlantic Canada would be the richest just look at the Irving Family. When you say millinos of dolalrs you realize thats pocket change righ' <br /> <br />Please reread my statement I said you are contradicting yourself, not a hypocrite. <br /> <br />Then z whalen said: 'The poverty problem in NB is due mostly to high unemployment rates. I don't understand how NB power making millions is going to help solve unemployment; it's not making more jobs. The problem is getting more employers to come to NB and offer a fair deal to workers.' <br /> <br />Here is one consideration: If NB power is making millions why are the citizens not reaping any benefits? Any corporation using your soil to operate on, has benefits and impact and that should be reflected in compensation to the people. If the tax rate for corporations was appropriate you would have more in your public coffers to create jobs, roads, hospitals, schools, building, fisheries research etc; all of which create jobs. (By the way Minto is the home town of my mother, so I am fairly familiar with the area.) <br /> <br />Also Canadian oil, aka the Sable Island project is bypassing the Maritime provinces and heading directly to the U.S.; no pipeline stops in the Maritimes, so if you needed it, you could not access your own oil! Does that make sense?? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/confused.gif' alt='Confused'> <br /> <br />Yes Irving Oil has all the money, but why did the Federal government pay them to tear down the ship yard, instead of using it to build ships for the Canadian Military or let them pay to clean it up themselves, they made plenty of money on that shipyard?