[rearguard]

Yeah, but there's *no* money in that!<br /> <br /> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'><br /> <br /> The fact is that the corporate world (or <a href="http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Books/Meme%20Machine/mmsynop.html">memeplex</a>) is *not* trying to figure out how to get rid of a reliance on expensive and limited energy supplies, rather it is doing the exact opposite because a perceived dependence on expensive and limited artifacts is exactly what it needs for survival. Take the "money" meme for example ...<br /> <br /> My rant aside, those are great ideas Brent and thanks for sharing.<br /> <br /> I live in a home built in the 70's, and it has a large fire place that seems to do little more than suck in cold air and blow out hot air up the chimney while consuming copious amounts of wood that I salvage for free (otherwise there'd be no fire). I figure I can do something with the fireplace, probably enough to heat up a good part of the house for next to nothing. Any suggestions?

[Marcarc]

Green is not just the colour of the environment but money as well remember. There are huge scams going on all over the place. One of the most important pieces of advice I'd give is for those who are just looking for a house- build it yourself. So many passive energy plans can be built into new homes. On one of the coldest days of the winter it also happened to be sunny and I got in my car and it was toasty even though it was -25 outside. A sunroom is well worth the cost.<br /> <br /> For the above about the fireplace the first thing I'd do is look into high efficiency wood stoves, that cuts down the wood and the hassle by half easily. Brick and stone on the wall behind it is a great way to keep the heat in, I have a friend who put the brick right up into the second floor and the heat radiates out of it all night.<br /> <br /> Some people even put stone floors in to get the heat throughout the house, but that might be overkill.<br /> <br /> I'm interested in the idea about the solar water tubing. Can it be used in areas with a lot of snow? We're hoping to move north in the next two years and water heating is definitely the power eater. I was reading about the tankless water heaters one time, but can't remember much of it. I've also noticed that much of the 'green' ideas are just common sense times 500%! I'm assuming that black tubing would have to be insulated, perhaps with the black pipe insulation you get for your basement? <br /> <br />

[Diogenes]

All that heat going up the lum.<br /> (Lang Mae Your Lum Reek) can be captured for hot water with a cooper coil inserted in the chimmeny<br /> <br /> I heartd od one guy in the states thaf requested junk mail <br /> cut his heating costs to zip<br /> <br /> in the winter months I use styrofoan inserts on the windows <br /> BIG savings<br /> <br /> http://www.motherearthshopping.com/detail.aspx?ItemNumber=1835<br /> <br /> there are tons of ways to reduce home heating costs <br /> <br /> Rodales New Shelter was a great source as was/is Mother Earth news<br /> or the old Whole Earth Cataloge<br /> depending on ones skills a boilers to generate electricy can be made on the chea[ as can 12 volt lighting <br /> <br /> all kindsa out-a-the box thinking can be applied<br /> <br /> http://www.motherearthliving.com/issues/motherearthliving/feature/diy/<br /> <br /> <br /> want more?<br /> e me via here

[Brent Swain]

Ive heard that with the ban on solid fuel stoves in the lower mainland , it has become a good place for out of town people to shop the buy and sell for a cheap fireplace insert.<br /> the black poly pipe water heater may not work in 40 below, but it will work a long way into fall and spring. A copper tubing thru the firebox of your insert and back into a well insulated hot water tank will give you a lot of hot water.It must rise in the firebox , and the tank must be full to work.<br /> Brent

[Wraun]

Ya the copper tubing in the fireplace or woodstove works really well when done correctly. <br /> Our first home was an old place and it had a wood furnace made out of a 200 gallon oil tank and inside it was the copper tubing to heat the water. Unfortunately the copper tubing carried the already hot water from the electric hotwater heater into the firebox to be turned to steam before going on to the taps where one could easily scald him/herself. <br /> pfff, hillbillies! :0)

[Dr Caleb]

I've often wondered if a stove pipe could be fitted with a fin type radiator, then enclosed in another pipe. Air could then be forced through the radiant pipe, and used to heat a house, much like the copper tubing idea.<br /> <br /> Control of the amount of heat you get would be difficult, but it would also be 'free'.<br />

[Rural]

Well guys all of your ideas will work…… to a point. There are two main things you should consider before totally trashing the established hardware that has been developed to harness solar and / or wood heat. Efficiency and safety! If you examine a modern solar panel you will see that the collector consists of multiple tubes surrounded by (black) fins to achieve better heat transfer (all in an insulated box with a glass front.). Exactly the same as your car radiator or the back of your fridge! (now there is a free idea for you if building your own.) The second major concern you should have is to ensure sufficient circulation that the liquid does not blow to steam, both solar and wood fired add ons have that capability and it can be VERY dangerous. It can build sufficient pressure to explode and sufficient heat to seriously injure, so make sure that ANY system has a pressure / temperature relief near and above the heat producing source. If you use solar for DIRECTLY heating your domestic water here in Canada you will have to drain it each fall to prevent freezing. A heat exchanger is required to run a glycol system that will run all winter. (see the links below)<br /> The passive solar solarium does indeed do a great job on a sunny winder day (wish we had more of them) our own 8 x 40 unheated “greenhouse” on the south side of our house gets up to 70f on a sunny -10c winters day.<br /> <br /> This is not really the forum for an extended discussion on this but do check out these links for some really good PRACTICAL information on solar, radiant, and heat sources. Yes, it a company promoting their product but they provide a very good tutorial on all aspects of designing and installing systems. Be sure to see the pdf installation manuals.<br /> <br /> http://www.radiantsolar.com/libraryindex.html<br /> <br /> http://www.radiantec.com/systems-sources/heating-sources.php<br /> <br /> PS Dr C, double wall stove pipes exist, mostly to reduce radiant heat, (and a typical oil furnace has a box type heat exchanger in the outgoing flue {nother free idea guys}) but one must be careful not to reduce the temperature of the chimney / stovepipe to the point that you create a build up of creosote and a fire hazard!<br /> <br />

[Diogenes]

One would hope, well THIS one would, that any suggestions put forth would be only that and full research would be done to have all the details be fore starting a project.<br /> <br /> my biggest concern is the payback time otherwisw why bother

[Reverend Blair]

Brent's swimming pool heating idea is basically wht my father had when he lived here in Winnipeg. I didn't like it because the water was too cold, so I picked up some more black tubing so the water had more time to heat up. Problem solved.<br /> <br /> I think the beer cost more than the tubing did.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE]I've often wondered if a stove pipe could be fitted with a fin type radiator, then enclosed in another pipe. Air could then be forced through the radiant pipe, and used to heat a house, much like the copper tubing idea.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Transmission coolers, heater cores, and oil coolers work pretty well for this, Doc. Run the tubing through the hot area, then pump (a replenisher pump from a photo-finishing machine works) the liquid (automotive antifreeze works well) through the transmission/oil cooler/heater core. Use a fan from an old truck to blow through the heater core. You control the heat by varying the fan speed. We didn't have a pipe to enclose the heater core, but it would have given us more control. <br /> <br /> I've never tried it in a house, but it works in old cabooses that have been converted into cottages. The wives get a little freaked out when they see what you've done to their kitchen though. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/lol.gif' alt='Laughing Out Loud'>

[wasjod]

Just thought I would beak off on this issue. I own a cob cottage in the Rockies, a couple of things which we did included passive solar design, this includes south facing windows, walls that are 2 feet thick in some places, serving as a heat bank so heat is absorbed during the day and given off at night. To heat water we have a solar water heater/still on our roof. It basically consits of a modified poly greenhouse with stainless steel sinks painted black (please don't laugh, we tried to be as cheap as possible), we have a tower we collect rainwater in, some goes into our black sinks, as the sun comes out the water gets very warm (+42C is our record). We have the water go into an insulated tank inside the house from which we get our hot water. On winter days we can still shower in the morning from water warmed the previous day. Of course if it is cloudy for a few days then we are out of luck, it's back to boiling until the sun comes out. We use shallow sinks and the poly tunnel is only 10 inches high, we may switch to a big huge tray so the water can heat up faster, we are thinking about something similar to the SECMOL heater,<br /> <br /> http://www.secmol.org/solarenergy/<br /> <br /> We have never had the temps like they have had, +14C in the winter, wow. That altitude makes a lot of difference as to the power of the sun, our cabin only sits at 5600 feet. The warmest we have ever been in winter without any heat going was +9C when it was -35C outside. We may try the greenhouse on the southside in the winter, sounds like a good idea. Just my thoughts as I love the idea of the self-sustaining home.

[Brent Swain]

Scandinavians build huge rockpile fireplaces with a firebox in the middle. They get a roaring fire going in it once a week and the rocks throw off the heat the rest of the week.<br /> My father's Hungarian neighbors used to buy a sheet metal airtight Hippy Killer woodstove and pile huge amounts of brick against it . They'd get the bricks as hot as possible with a roaring fire, then fill the stove up , damp it down, then head for town. After a weekend in town they would come home to a warm house , in a Saskatchewan winter in minus 40 degree weather.<br /> Brent

[Brent Swain]

The beauty of black poly tubing is it is so soft it can feeeze and thaw many times , for years, without splitting.<br /> Brent

[Brent Swain]

I guess one could put coiled poly tubuing in a concrete floor beforee pouring it, then pump the hot water from the roof into the floor to heat it. This would serve as a huge heat sink overnight until the morning sun came out again.<br /> Brent

[Diogenes]

Scandinavians build huge rockpile fireplaces with a firebox in the middle<br /> called masonary stoves <br /> Inglenooks etc burn hot and burn all the gasses therefore clean burning<br /> piping could be added to then as well for the same effect to heast the floors<br /> and what have you<br />

[Diogenes]

http://chimneykeepers.com/masonheater.html<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7SUNA&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Masonry+stoves+in+Europe&spell=1