[N Say]

Pushkin = former Soviet?<BR> It's true that the Canadian Wheat Board has been drastically weakened in the last 20 years and has had funding cut a lot, but at least we still have it. I also think we're way too self-conscious as a country. We need someone like Trudeau who will freak out the Americans with stuff like the NEP & FIRA. <P> All those ideas make sense; where did you come up with them?

[President Blair]

Why is that there is no investigation on the conservatives or Mulroney to be specific? Isn't food security more important than Military security through out history of mankind? What would Mulrony do if ADM board is talking about the Canadian Farmer? What would Mulroney do if ADM is discussing about markets and the competition? Doesn't this mean he has to recluse himself from most of their meetings? He obviously had access to all the food security national programs and the poor canadian farmer? Isn't there a national security issue here? These conservatives have no shame? What a greedy bunch and him at the top? Why is the country crying over sponsorship and other stuff that will not make or break a country when the rug has been pulled underneath the canadian farmer. Incredible.

[Milton]

The sponsorship scandal is just another example of money transfers made to the business sector by the government . They got very little for the money they spent but this isn't the first time the government has managed to bungle financial transactions. The Liberals and the Conservatives are both beholding to the CCCE who are planning to set up a watchdog committee on Parliament Hill to make sure that, which ever of the two parties form the next government, no anti-business legislation is passed into law. The CCCE (Canadian Council of Chief Executives) have not been elected but they will have power over Parliament just as if they were and they want deep integration with the USA. A vote for the Liberals or Conservatives is a vote for <b>Canusa</b>, a vote for any other party is a vote for <b>Canada</b>.

[whelan costen]

I posted this link to the main forum, can't remember the exact title but it was to do with mad cow crisis. The article is most excellent, tell all about why we need to be self sufficient in Canada, and how the gov both provincial and federal are not helping the farmer but actually just helping the U.S. controlled industry. Long article but really well researched and he states 100% factual info.

http://www.lgunderson.com/essay_3.pdf

[Kevan Taylor]

TD- good comment with a lot of good points and lots to think about. well done

[sthompson]

TD, US and Canadian practices are not the same. That's why the US mad cow actually ended up in the food supply while our mad cow did not. Scientists believe that mad cow is caused by prions, which is a protein that may even arise spontaneously. So they know that BSE can't necessarily be treated like an infectious disease and be contained effectively that way. <br /><p> <br />The push by people such as my local Conservative MP Charlie Penson (my federal riding is actually Ground Zero for the BSE crisis) is to harmonize our testing practices with the U.S., and since the U.S. doesn't want to do 100% testing like Japan does, attempts by farmer-owned coops to put in full testing are being blocked by our Conservative government here in Alberta and I'm sure elsewhere. It was also the federal Conservatives who blocked a motion to fine the packers for refusing to open their books to the committee investigating where the aid money went federally. The packers were actually ruled to be in contempt of parliament but with the fines blocked, there is no way to enforce that ruling now. <br /><p> <br />It's very true that the system in Canada is set up to favour giant vertically integrated agribusiness corporations, which are generally US-owned, rather than family farmers. <br /><p> <br />Factory farms tend to put family farmers out of business and they also tend to use immigrant labour in some fairly deplorable conditions, while shipping profits out of communities. For instance, we have a third less hog farmers in Canada than we did a decade or so ago and yet the same number or more hogs. And yet factory farms are not necessarily more efficient, or inevitable, as we are often told, but are actually just favoured by our current legislation and taxes. With some political will we could change things. <br /><p> <br />There are several things that must be done to stop this, and some of these are as follows: <br /><P> <br /><ul> <br /><li>create restrictions on foreign ownership of Canadian businesses <br /><li>make fees to organizations for producers (like beef producers associations) optional rather than mandatory, since many farmers feel these organizations no longer speak for them and instead, speak for big business <br /><li>encourage value-added marketing and farmer-owned slaughter facilities (local coops) <br /><li> <br />stop falsely promoting factory farms as economic development for rural communities, and ensure that any new and existing factory farms must pay for the strain they put on communities e.g. factory farms strain and damage local roadways, yet they often don't pay for that infrastructure or are taxed for it <br /><li>stop defining huge factory farms as "accepted agricultural practice" and start defining them as what they really are: industry <br /><li>stop providing a disproportionate share of federal farm safety net funding to factory farms; stop providing loans, equity investment, tax breaks, and infrastructure at the provincial level to factory farms rather than family farms <br /><li>ensure that factory farms adhere to strict environmental regulations such as lining and covering lagoons </ul> <br /><p> <br />NDP platfrom 2004: <br /><p> <br /><ul> <br /><li>provide incentives to increase value-added processing and packing plants to create jobs for rural people <br /><li>enact a moratorium on GM wheat to protect Canadian export markets <br /><li>ban all animal-to-animal feed <br /><li>promote an ag policy that preserves what farmers have created to protect themselves, including the Canadian Wheat Board and supply management in dairy and poultry <br /><li>recognize the devastating impact of American domestic support and European export subsidies and increase funding for Canadian farm families until a level playing field can be established internationally</ul> <br />etc <br /><P> <br />Recommendations of the National Farmer's Union on the BSE crisis: <br /><p> <br /><ul> <br /><li>get the borders open immediately <br /><li> adopt strict testing measures including 100% testing for BSE <br /><li>remove all animal protein from livestock feed <br /><li>move towards elminating the use of synthetic growth hormones and non-therapuetic antibiotics <br /><li>conduct further research into the cause of BSE and its contributing factors <br /><li>consider border measures to ensure that beef imported into Canada is BSE-free <br /><li>match Canadian beef production to Canadian beef consumption <br /><li>monitor and report profits by major packing plants <br /></ul> <br /><p> <br />And to that I'd add provide fair and transparent aid to beef producers and feed grain producers (and that means don't give most of it to the packers). An $80 cheque doesn't save a farm and suicides and bankruptcies are way up. <br /><p> <br />Also check out the Council of Canadians' Beyond Factory Farming coalition: <a href="http://www.beyondfactoryfarming.org">www.beyondfactoryfarming.org</a>

[Stymiest]

[QUOTE BY= TDPushkin] <b>The Death of the Saskatchewan Farmer</b> <br /> <br />: Canada became a great country, the leading defender of the British empire and it's king, a player in international forum beyond it's size of population and sometimes economy. All this happened with the country not owning or touting nuclear weapons, modern sticks of intimidation, while it is the most capable country to own them having the material (supplied the Manhattan project), the scientists, engineers and technicians and the industrial capacity. <br /> <br /> <br />So, how did this country attain so much influence and good will around the world if it chose not to join the big bad boys of Soviets, US, Britain and France in waving and parading missiles and larger missiles. The secret to is known to economists, but the mechanism and the complete secret is known to two entities. One is the Saskatchewan farmer and his cohorts across the country and the other is a Liberal prime minister who moved to Saskatchewan and was sent to ottawa for 20 years to govern this country with his core team of C.D. Howe, Paul Martin and Mr. La pointe. <br /> <br /> <br />Human beings no matter how much nuclear weapons or population they have, all need food and shelter. A small province in the Canadian prairie produced the most of food than anywhere in the world. She was the safety for food security of the British empire. She fed the Soviet Union and China. All Mackenzie King and C.D. Howe had to do was nationalize some of the railroads and expand the capacity to haul this secret weapon better than any other country in the world. <br />When the US for example are always debating on their railroad capacity, this is one subject you never heard in Canada in the past 60 years. Since the plan was for 50 million Canadians by 2010 and expanded markets, it will be sometime before Canadians will ever discuss railroad capacity. Canada is the only country that can change from truck traffic to railroads without any big problem. <br /> <br /> <br />So, why did the Saskatchewan farmer die? Who killed him? Don't we have the best police of any country? Is this offense still unsolved or has been secretly prosecuted? Can Sherlock Holmes methodology be used? <br /> <br /> <br />The time the Saskatchewan farmer and his bodies across the country died has not been determined to the exact date and time. The prime minister under whose watch the fatal shot was fired is known. His name is Brian Mulroney. We asked sherlock Holmes to investigate, but being a fair minded Scotsman, he told us just follow all the announcements and actions of your government, and not spend some more money in hiring me. Ask the following questions? <br /> <br /> <br />Did you ever had a government that blindly followed Ms. Thatcher and Ronald Reagan in their ruthless campaign of privatization? <br /> <br />Do you ever have Canadians who admire systems different and couldn't wait to dismantle this socialist system of yours? <br /> <br />What makes your farmer unique in the world? Why is he the only farmer in the world to be moderate in ideology, tolerant in culture, generous in wealth and above all come up with socio economic systems like wheat board, health care? Don't you think he has a lot of enemies? <br /> <br /> <br />Has your country recently got in debt to foreign financiers? Do you know that these foreign financiers have been eying this capitalist but with social conscience for a long time? Have you read what the financiers tried to do during and immediately after the war to undermine your country? <br /> <br /> <br /><b>The strategy was set then:</b> <br /> <br />Elect a government that can be receptive to foreign influence <br />Elect a government that can follow or pretend to follow efficiency, creation of jobs and wealth, competitiveness etc <br />Strangle the farmer by taking over the markets of China, Soviet Union etc <br />Scuttle the secret strategy of international forum and obstruct all avenues where the Saskatchewan farmer played a roll; <br /> <br />Dismantle the Boards, Associations and government agencies by promoting freedom of individual farmer; <br /> <br />Invest for the control of processing, transportation and sales of food intercepting the board and the farmer; <br /> <br />Obtain secrets of the farmer from government by hiring retired employees, ministers into the competition. Get hold of those who really know what the farmers weaknesses and strengths are from the inside; <br /> <br />The sheer fact that Brian Mulroney went from being a Canadian prime minister to the most prominent director of Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) should never be lost on the investigation, Sherlock Holmes says. The statement of ADM chairman to some grumbling shareholders in praising Brian Mulroney and showing them the highest value to the company is a glaring testimony. <br /> <br />The oil drunk Alberta farmers being encouraged to break the monopoly of the wheat board and other farm instruments of Canada in the name of privately selling their produce and the reception south of the border for these renegades is not an isolated act. <br /> <br />The fact that the Saskatchewan farmer lost the China and Soviet markets during the government and leadership of Brian Mulroney, doesn't look like Mr. Mulroney handed to his fellow 'Irish eyes' singing Reagan due to business savvy or weakness. <br /> <br />Canadians have become so receptive to foreign ideology. They don't even ask as to why a chicken would be sent to china, be packaged and be sold in stores in this country. We have become so stupid that we can't see the difference between a luxury car parts being made and owned by various countries and the very basic food we eat. <br /> <br />People now can openly announce that free enterprise and individual is all we need. Some people say as long as I have money I can buy foreign food and cheaper. I can't wait to see a Saskatchewan farmer taking the 'freedom loving' enterprise, no tax to low tax prophets to a decent court and asking for payment to his share of the goodwill on Canada that they feel so proud in using. Do it fast. If the international financiers have their way, it may not be long before our judges will be elected. The financier and his Canadian representatives will completely break this bloody socialist country. <br />The de-industrialization of Ontario is proceeding according to the financiers and international traders plan. It is being hammered to the modern stone age. The power outage in the past year should have thought an ample lesson to anyone either left with some Canadian conscience or respect. <br /> <br /> <br />Here are a few points which the Saskatchewan farmer and his cohorts around the country should get signed in front of a judge by all the political parties campaigning to govern this country: <br /> <br />1.Maintain and support marketing boards and protect their monopoly in Canada <br /> <br />2.Allow and support these Boards to invest abroad and make profit <br /> <br />3.These Boards being incorporated are governed by Farmer elected members. <br /> <br />4.Get out of any international agreement that came to undermine our food security. <br /> <br />5.The Canada Development Bank invest as a share holder in food processing business and sales. <br /> <br /> <br /><b>BSE or Mad cow </b>was the best lesson to learn how Canada is tittering on the brink of disaster. When it happened the highest official Ralph Klein said that the farmer should have shot, buried and shut up. Ralph Klein didn't care of the 30 million Canadians and citizens of other countries. If Klein doesn't have other reasons of staying in power, this should have brought his resignation immediately. The scientists of both US and Canada have concluded that since both countries practices are the same there is no reason to consider border issue. Ralph Klein's comments have closed the markets outside of north America. Who is going to trust with their population's safety when a Premier wants to hide occurrences of Mad cow? Would you? I don't think so. To cap it all rumor has it that the Americans are waiting for the Canadian election so that the border official opening would be the first gift of friendship accompanied by Ralph Klein, to be announced in Washington or Ottawa in celebration of an openly pro American government.The money given in the name of helping the farmer, well by now everyone knows where it went. How did it become that the Largest food processors are all American and good friends of the Alberta government. What a coincidence? So, dear farmer the processors are foreign, the big stores will also be foreign what ever is left, the international financier will finish you off this term. Then Canada will be a real poodle. The Americans were smart in filing their military invasion strategy of the 30th, which was not assured to bring them success. This time they will have accomplished it quietly. <br /> <br /> <br />Good Luck. <br /> <br /> <br /><b><i>©TD Pushkin, 2004</i></b>TD Pushkin is an immigrant interviewed and accepted during Piere Elliot Trudeau and came to Canada during the Mr. Turner to Mr. Mulroney transfer. TD Pushkin landed in Saskatchewan. Has not done any farm work in his life, but was impressed by the modernity, high culture and generosity of the Saskatchewan farmer. <br />[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Ehm Canada had Nukes we were just the first power at the time to give them up. Canadian Fighter/bombers in Europe had the job of dropping tactical nuclear weapons on invading soviet troops <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'>

[Brent Swain]

The fall of the Roman empire and others before them began witht he concentration of farm land in the hands of corporations. Ronald Wright's book " A Short History Of Progress " is a good read on the subject.Why do we refuse to learn the lessons of history when they are so clear?This may be the last opportunity to learn from them, as it's the whole planet that's at stake, not just a country or an empire.<br /> Brent Swain

[Marcarc]

Uh, huh, teutonic 'barbarians' sacking roman cities had nothing to do with the fall of Rome. Sure.<br /> <br /> A little more saccharine for the propaganda machine, Canada was even more militant on communists than the states were, the leader of the communist party was jailed and run out of the country. As far as war goes, Canada was a chief supplier of cheap resources of materials for virtually every war machine on the planet, however, it was mostly tied into the states, which is why we didn't have missiles of our own. In the second world war Sudbury was on the 'hit list' of the german and japanese army, of course it was canadian minerals that helped Germany build up it's arms in the first place until they became 'the enemy'. <br /> <br /> It was canadian research and in some cases materials in nuclear power which led China, India, and Pakistan to their nuclear weapons. It is remarkably easy with a little know how to convert a nuclear power plant to a weapons manufacturer, thats why the US is so against Iran building one. However, our government is subsidizing more nuclear power plants all over the world, creating the very real potential of every half assed dictator of having nuclear weapons.<br /> <br /> The country has been a war manufacturer just like any other, and the Saskatchewan farmer had nothing to do with it. <br /> <br /> On other points, I enjoyed the lesson on BSE above, however, I don't quite understand how the federal conservative party blocked the legislation referred to, wasn't it a majority liberal government at the time?

[whelan costen]

Here's the news, quote from the Sun, <br /> ""The fact is the money went to the owner of the animals whether they owned 50, or 100, or 1,000," Agriculture Minister Shirley McLellan said.<br /> <br /> "If you want to say that we gave money to big business -- yes."<br /> <br /> She vowed in March to make the list public after some critics claimed the programs were benefiting meat- packers more than ranchers.<br /> <br /> National concerns about whether the meat-packing industry benefited from the BSE crisis came to a head last month when the Commons agriculture committee found Lakeside Packers and Cargill --- both with Alberta plants --- in contempt of Parliament for refusing to open their books.<br /> <br /> While the committee recommended the companies be fined $250,000 per day for not disclosing the financial information, Conservatives MPs blocked the move on May 13.<br /> <br /> Arno Doerksen of the Alberta Beef Producers said while the compensation did not cover everyone's losses, the programs were effective in propping up the industry.'<br /> Read the whole article: http://www.canadianactionparty.ca/MainP ... ge=English

[Brent Swain]

Romans had no trouble fighting off invaders before their society began to collapse from within.Duhhhh.<br /> Brent

[Marcarc]

Off topic I know but...<br /> <br /> For years, the well-disciplined Roman army held the barbarians of Germany back. Then in the third century A. D. the Roman soldiers were pulled back from the Rhine-Danube frontier to fight civil war in Italy. This left the Roman border open to attack. Gradually Germanic hunters and herders from the north began to overtake Roman lands in Greece and Gaul (later France). Then in 476 A. D. the Germanic general Odacer or Odovacar overthrew the last of the Roman Emperors, Augustulus Romulus. From then on the western part of the Empire was ruled by Germanic chieftain[QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Other main internal causes generally accepted included decreased military spending, lack of new technology, inflation, unemployment, political corruption, public health, and the rise in christianity which made more romans pacifists. None have anything to do with farming.

[Brent Swain]

Perhaps it's time we stopped talking about farm subsidies as if they were charity handouts ,and started calling them what they are, investments in the security of our food supply.Perhaps they should only be available to farms below a certain size , without corporate owners, hiding in the wings.<br /> Brent

[Brent Swain]

Rather than blocking foreign investment , the Fira program should have been aimed at diversifying foreign investment . You can have 80% foreign investment and still have control as long as the investment is from a large number of countries , and no none country has the lions share.Relying on the US is like buying tickets on the Titanic.<br /> Without the NEP, the oil sands would only be in the early stages of development by now.<br /> Harper is following in Mulroneys footsteps and was elected despite having named Mulroney as his main mentor.He said he intended to use the Mulroney standard of ethics as his guide. Duhh! Despite that he was elected?Duhhh!It's great to see his rapid drop in the polls due to his sucking up to the US, just like Mulroney did. Will they ever learn? Not likely.<br /> Only the NDP stand for Canadian sovereignty, and have the chance of electing a reasonable number of members , enought to hold the balance of power.<br /> I believe the next government of Canada will be a Liberal minority govt with the NDP holding the balance of power.<br /> I was dissapointed that Ed Schreyer wasn't elected as he was the only one openly opposing the Canadian Rural Clearances for the benefit of corporations <br /> Brent