[Marcarc]

The debate was about 'choice' not 'reason' or 'instinct'-those words weren't even mentioned. However, if you think that all animals have is instinct and never exhibit self sacrifice then you've never spent any time around animals. If my cat decides to sleep downstairs instead of upstairs, what does that have to do with instinct? There is no instinct that says 'this spot is better than that spot'. That human beings can reason (some better than others) has never been disputed, nobody here has ever said 'a person cannot be held accountable because their environment forced them to do something'. That's never even been an issue, why some people keep thinking that it must be debated is beyond me, when nobody has even insinuated it. <br /> <br /> So you can jump to all the ridiculous conclusions you want, nobody ever said that animals can build a computer-that's so ridiculous I'm having trouble understanding how anybody could even think such a thing was implied. It really is no surprise that you are always asking people 'whats your point?' Clearly you can't master even the basics of intelligent conversation. But by all means continue on the psychotic tirades, I'm sure its entertaining to readers.

[Guest]

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] The debate was about 'choice' not 'reason' or 'instinct'-those words weren't even mentioned. [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> *yawn*<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] Animals make choices all the time-we ARE animals.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> If you can prove to me that an animal can choose to hold back it's instincts in the wild, (and not via domestication), then you're the better man.<br /> <br /> If humanity operated itself like the wild kingdom would...such trivialities like 'racial profiling' wouldn't even be thought of.<br /> <br /> More like: Survival of the fittest.<br /> <br /> Humans are *NOT* Animals. Pound that one in your head.<br /> <br /> Humans are *NOT* Animals.<br /> <br /> Thus Humans *MUST* BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS.<br /> <br /> Get it?<br />

[Marcarc]

Get what? Your view? I get that its your view, but you don't seem to get it that its YOUR VIEW. C'est la vie.<br /> <br /> In fact there is no 'survival of the fittest'. If I'm a hunter I can blow away the healthiest buck in the herd-just out of a personal choice-how did that make him 'the fittest' and how did that help him survive?<br /> <br /> Anybody who knows ANYTHING about nature knows that's not true. An anteater can stumble across an ant hill after being banished from home. You think the 'biggest strongest ants will survive'? Well, you just go on thinking that. <br /> <br /> A perfectly healthy, even the fittest gazelle can trip over a land mammal that happens to come out of a hole while the pack is running from a lion, down he goes-and eaten he gets. He WAS the fittest, now he's first course.<br /> <br /> THATS how nature operates, not the vague stories told on 'wild kingdom'. It's 'right place, right time' or 'wrong place, wrong time' in the wild. Of course that doesn't mean that its incorrect that the young and old dispropriately get eaten, obviously if you can't run as fast that's a disadvantage-but it's not nearly the whole story. But as said, even that healthiest buck running can be taken out by a guy with a guy in a helicopter.<br /> <br /> That humans AREN"T animals is something you should be calling all the biology departments in the country about, because they are certainly under that impression. Animals come is all shapes and sizes with varying skills and abilities. Some use tools, some don't, most that I've studied are far more advanced than most people who live on farms or in the cities suspect since they've had little experience with wild animals.<br /> <br /> As for the 'instinct' argument, that depends how you define instinct, and nobody has conclusively, so you have god given insight you should be contacting the science journals. The definition is:<br /> "Instinct is the inherent disposition of a living organism toward a particular action. Instincts are generally inherited patterns of responses or reactions to certain kinds of stimuli. " <br /> <br /> So the REAL argument appears to be WHEN is instinct used and not used. You use 'self sacrifice' as the example, which I don't think is correct, but is seen all the time in the wild. Just the other day a cat was in my yard attacking birds when a squirrel came out of the underbrush and went crazy on him and chased him away. He then joined the birds in resuming eating. Small animals show the exact same self sacrifice in protecting their young that humans do. The mistake that is often made is the presumption that ALL humans will exhibit self sacrifice for their children, which isn't even remotely true, in fact many are their children's worst nightmare.

[Guest]

A human you can ask that person to 'put down the gun'<br /> <br /> You can reason with humans, animals you can't.<br /> <br /> Let me repeat this:<br /> <br /> You can reason with humans, animals you can't.<br /> <br /> Humans pay taxes.<br /> <br /> Animals (if you discount the dog 'Benji') don't pay taxes. <br /> <br /> Humans can make a cup of coffee.<br /> <br /> A dog can't.<br /> <br /> Pound that one in your ass.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] Get what? Your view? I get that its your view, but you don't seem to get it that its YOUR VIEW. C'est la vie.<br /> <br /> In fact there is no 'survival of the fittest'. If I'm a hunter I can blow away the healthiest buck in the herd-just out of a personal choice-how did that make him 'the fittest' and how did that help him survive?<br /> <br /> Anybody who knows ANYTHING about nature knows that's not true. An anteater can stumble across an ant hill after being banished from home. You think the 'biggest strongest ants will survive'? Well, you just go on thinking that. <br /> <br /> A perfectly healthy, even the fittest gazelle can trip over a land mammal that happens to come out of a hole while the pack is running from a lion, down he goes-and eaten he gets. He WAS the fittest, now he's first course.<br /> <br /> THATS how nature operates, not the vague stories told on 'wild kingdom'. It's 'right place, right time' or 'wrong place, wrong time' in the wild. Of course that doesn't mean that its incorrect that the young and old dispropriately get eaten, obviously if you can't run as fast that's a disadvantage-but it's not nearly the whole story. But as said, even that healthiest buck running can be taken out by a guy with a guy in a helicopter.<br /> <br /> That humans AREN"T animals is something you should be calling all the biology departments in the country about, because they are certainly under that impression. Animals come is all shapes and sizes with varying skills and abilities. Some use tools, some don't, most that I've studied are far more advanced than most people who live on farms or in the cities suspect since they've had little experience with wild animals.<br /> <br /> As for the 'instinct' argument, that depends how you define instinct, and nobody has conclusively, so you have god given insight you should be contacting the science journals. The definition is:<br /> "Instinct is the inherent disposition of a living organism toward a particular action. Instincts are generally inherited patterns of responses or reactions to certain kinds of stimuli. " <br /> <br /> So the REAL argument appears to be WHEN is instinct used and not used. You use 'self sacrifice' as the example, which I don't think is correct, but is seen all the time in the wild. Just the other day a cat was in my yard attacking birds when a squirrel came out of the underbrush and went crazy on him and chased him away. He then joined the birds in resuming eating. Small animals show the exact same self sacrifice in protecting their young that humans do. The mistake that is often made is the presumption that ALL humans will exhibit self sacrifice for their children, which isn't even remotely true, in fact many are their children's worst nightmare.[/QUOTE]

[Marcarc]

Whoever said they could? Perhaps you could limit your responses to statements that were actually made.

[Guest]

[QUOTE BY= Marcarc] Whoever said they could? Perhaps you could limit your responses to statements that were actually made.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> You did.<br /> <br /> Or did you forget already?<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Marcarc] Animals make choices all the time-we ARE animals.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br />