[z_whalen]

A hospital in a large city like Toronto is sure to receive adequate resources and be able to treat many people as quickly as possible, especially with the recent SARS scare. The real waits are in small cities. In Bathurst, a city with a population of roughly 20 000, I've spent hours waiting to see a doctor.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= z_whalen] A hospital in a large city like Toronto is sure to receive adequate resources and be able to treat many people as quickly as possible, especially with the recent SARS scare. The real waits are in small cities. In Bathurst, a city with a population of roughly 20 000, I've spent hours waiting to see a doctor.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />Sorry Zach, but that's not always true. You'd have to be more specific as to whether or not you were in an urgent situation but I do realize rural hospitals have been closed. However, Toronto lost more than one hospital under the Mike Harris' provincial conservatives, while wealthy Oakville got new ones. <br /> <br />Toronto does have a lot of hospitals, but the main problems are these: shortage of nurses, and shortage of family doctors, and hospitals concentrated in certain areas, (university Ave.) which is okay, but though there are quite a few around in other parts of the city, the traffic doesn't always comply. <br /> <br />As for wait times--they are bad in hospitals during smog days, as many have trouble breathing, ambulances get redirected, and heart patients as well have to wait longer due to lack of nurses in the hospitals, not lack of hospital space. <br /> <br />It's not all bad, but emergency room beds aren't always easy to come by in Toronto on bad air days for asthmatic patients and those with other lung anmd heart diseases. The odd person dies because of these waits. <br /> <br />As for long waits--the biggest problem is surgeries, like hip replacements and cataract surgery. <br /> <br />When something is urgent in Toronto, like if you have a heart attack, you'll be in a cath lab within 2 hours if you really need it. If it's not urgent, you'll wait longer. <br /> <br />In the U.S., a heart attack victim can be seen within 2 hours whether their condition is serious or not, due to private infrastructure we simply don't have, but this is only available to 10% of the population. <br /> <br />In rural areas in Ontario, serious patients get airlifted to cities like Peterborough, or Toronto if close enough, and wait times are due to lack of nurses, and available beds. Usually there is not a big problem--just not always. <br /> <br />I realize rural hospital closures are big problem, however, as no other hospitals are nearby. Thank you neo-liberals! <br /> <br />That all said, I do think the problem is overblown and not at a crisis stage, although I do agree with Zach I suppose that rural areas are hit harder when a hospital closes. <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />

[lesouris]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed]Sorry Zach, but that's not always true. You'd have to be more specific as to whether or not you were in an urgent situation but I do realize rural hospitals have been closed. However, Toronto lost more than one hospital under the Mike Harris' provincial conservatives, while wealthy Oakville got new ones.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />That's not true, a friend of mine works at the Oakville Trafalgar Memorial Hospital. It is the only hospital in Oakville and during the Harris years, half of it was closed and torn down while the town's population doubled. <br /> <br />The whole waiting time situation in relation to the amount of doctors and nurses available could be solved if the government recognized immigrants' foreign credentials, or at least streamlined it so that they could actually practise their profession as quickly as possible once they get hear. <br /> <br />I think that the problem of waiting times in relation to medical equipment could be solved by creating a small hospital maintenance tax (and I mean just cents a year per person) that could work on a progressive scale in relation to income. This money would go towards the purchase and maintenance of hospital machines.

[KevinGagnon]

lesouris,

Harris/neo-cons plan is to make our health care seem unstable, so they can then make privatization seem like the only solution. I'm afraid their plan will work. We have both the Liberals and Neo-Conservatives to thank for this.

KEvin

[Calumny]

I recently read an article in our local paper about an individual who has medical certification from another country. She's been here for seven or so years. The article mentioned she's competing with a thousand or so other applicants for the thirty or so medical licenses available in Ontario this year. <br /> <br />Why so few licenses? Why so few, relatively speaking, doctors graduated every year? <br /> <br />Think it has anything to do with keeping incomes at a certain level? <br /> <br /> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'>

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= lesouris] [QUOTE BY= Perturbed]Sorry Zach, but that's not always true. You'd have to be more specific as to whether or not you were in an urgent situation but I do realize rural hospitals have been closed. However, Toronto lost more than one hospital under the Mike Harris' provincial conservatives, while wealthy Oakville got new ones.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br />That's not true, a friend of mine works at the Oakville Trafalgar Memorial Hospital. It is the only hospital in Oakville and during the Harris years, half of it was closed and torn down while the town's population doubled. <br /> <br />The whole waiting time situation in relation to the amount of doctors and nurses available could be solved if the government recognized immigrants' foreign credentials, or at least streamlined it so that they could actually practise their profession as quickly as possible once they get hear. <br /> <br />I think that the problem of waiting times in relation to medical equipment could be solved by creating a small hospital maintenance tax (and I mean just cents a year per person) that could work on a progressive scale in relation to income. This money would go towards the purchase and maintenance of hospital machines.[/QUOTE] <br /> <br /> <br />Sorry for the inaccuracy....I could've sworn that it was reported that some city in the 905 area was getting a new hospital, but it could've been a red herring....should've known the suburbs would be screwed as well.

[Marcarc]

There was a study done recently, though I haven't looked it up lately, which did an analysis on waiting times and levels of service. What they found was that, particularly in Toronto, affluent neighbourhoods had far better care than those in poorer areas. This was also reflected across the country, where it didn't have so much to do with population numbers but income levels. Seems Canada has a privatization scheme all it's own. <br /> Of course, I still haven't heard a single person reason out how exactly a 'profit motive' will provide better care. It's pretty much established that socialized medicine is far more efficient but when you can't control the government what can you do?

[Kory Yamashita]

The problems to our healthcare system are twofold:<br /> <br /> 1. Our system was designed a half-century ago when acute care was the primary concern. Tuberculosis and job-related injuries were commonplace and so we built large hospitals with emergency wards treat these acute illnesses. This has changed in recent years with diabetes and cancer teaming up with the general aging of our population to put a huge stress on long-term care. The solution, as noted by every federal government-sponsored study in Canadian history, is to establish community health centres with highly-trained nurses. This would allow seniors to walk in and consult a nurse, not wasting the time and money of booking an appointment with a doctor. And there is no shortage of nurses. Rather, there is a shortage of employed nurses. The Romanow Report and the Caledon Institute's reply to the Romanow Report will give you more insight into this if you wish.<br /> <br /> 2. The federal Liberal government has cut health care transfer payments to provinces by $25 billion (I believe.. it might have been more) since 1993. This allowed the Liberals to balance the budget to avoid financial depression (according to Paul Martin). Martin now made the generous gesture of "giving" the provinces an increase of $9billion in health care funding. So we're still out $16 billion by my calculations. So of course people will start turning to an alternative system out of desperation. The real problem is that our current system is underfunded due to federal cuts.

[Guest]

<br /> The refusal to recognise Medical Licences issued in other Countries is certainly having a negative effect on Canadian Health Care.<br /> Dennis Baker

[Kory Yamashita]

dbaker, true... I wasn't trying to make a comprehensive list; I was trying to indicate the primary reasons.

[Marcarc]

There are other primary reasons. Doctors themselves were one of the most adamant opponents of medicare, while most aren't suffering, some, usually depending on their conscience are overworked. However, if I can find it I'll post the ad I saw at a website here in Waterloo, a fairly well to do area of the country with a rampant shortage of doctors. Ads for practises advertised that doctors only had to work part time if they so chose, and administration and other costs were all covered. No hospital hours were necessary.<br /> <br /> Combine this with another report where income levels of medical students have dropped to the point where almost no medical students come from families earning less than 100,000 per year. Here the federal system works against us, in that if municipalities had more resources then they could contract students by paying their education in return for X number of years worked.They do it in the states, why not here? <br /> <br /> Finally building a few more medical schools works as well since it's common knowledge that doctors generally stay and work close to where they do their residency. If you school in London for all those years, by that time Sudbury is just a vague memory. <br /> <br /> Obviously if even us butthead non-medical types can come up with such suggestions, those in the field either know these things or are fabulously ignorant. Even though it meant far more hours (at least we're told that) I don't really remember any doctor's strikes when the budget came out, only when it has to do with their contracts. <br /> <br /> On a personal note, I recently saw an ear-nose-throat specialist who took one quick look in my ears, nose and throat (less time than I had at the clinic), hadn't even read my case history (his first words were 'what can I do for you?') Then spent the rest of the visit trying to sell me on elective laser surgery that he performs for $700 for a ten minute surgery. The sign at the front door shows that 'his office' (him or staff) also do elective hair removal. Personally, when I visit a specialist I prefer one that spends his time on his specialty!

[KevinGagnon]

I believe in the public system. I believe in many of Maude Barlow's suggestion for improving the system. <br /> <br /> Now with that said. I have to wait 6 months to a year for a endoscopic done. I'm going for this test is to see if I have ulcers. What scares me most about waiting this long, is that stomach ulcers can mimic stomach cancer.<br /> <br /> Would a private system make me get service any quicker? I highly doubt it. They have waiting times in the U.S just as we do here in Canada. <br /> <br /> Kevin

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= KevinGagnon] I believe in the public system. I believe in many of Maude Barlow's suggestion for improving the system. <br /> <br /> Now with that said. I have to wait 6 months to a year for a endoscopic done. I'm going for this test is to see if I have ulcers. What scares me most about waiting this long, is that stomach ulcers can mimic stomach cancer.<br /> <br /> Would a private system make me get service any quicker? I highly doubt it. They have waiting times in the U.S just as we do here in Canada. <br /> <br /> Kevin[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> A public system CAN be just as fast IMO, and the death rat eis usually lower in public hospitals.<br /> <br /> This being said, in many European countries they have SOME private care, and you would be seen very fast if you had the money...probably within 1-3 days. In Toronto, people drive to Buffalo for MRIs. Some doctors in the detriot area make millions from this.