[Spud]

We could always interfer with their politics.Tell them to stop overpopulating!<br /> The Sikh MP`s here don`t have much choice except to approve,after all Canada is Uncle Sams bumboy. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'>

[BC Mary]

It's outrageous that a foreign religious leader feels comfortable demanding that Canada's parliament enact laws to suit Sikhs in India rather than Canadians in Canada.<br /> <br /> Let's hit the ball back into Giani Gojinder Singh Vedanti's court by demanding that he arrange for India to abolish the cruel caste system, and to compensate The Untouchables for the way their lives have been made miserable?

[lesouris]

[QUOTE BY= BC Mary] It's outrageous that a foreign religious leader feels comfortable demanding that Canada's parliament enact laws to suit Sikhs in India rather than Canadians in Canada.<br /> <br /> Let's hit the ball back into Giani Gojinder Singh Vedanti's court by demanding that he arrange for India to abolish the cruel caste system, and to compensate The Untouchables for the way their lives have been made miserable? [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Although as a gay man myself I find myself in oposition to Giani Gojinder Singh Vedanti's proposal, I feel I must rebuke your claims BC Mary. First of all, one of Sikhism's main selling points when it was first created was a rejection of the caste system - a system which has since been officially abolished in India, although some people (especially in rural areas) still follow caste guidelines. The Dalit (or Untouchables), although still suffering from immense persecution in the countryside, are treated equally by the government and in most major urban areas - there are also affirmative action programs to help them out. Sikhism is not a foreign religion in Canada, we have many Sikhs living here (0.9% of the population), and the leader of the Sikh religion has as much right to interfere with Canadian politics as the Pope does (although I don't like it when either do, I just can't stand inequality).<br /> <br /> He has his opinions, I have my, you have yours, each Sikh and Sikh MP has their own. I know a lot of Catholics who support same-sex marriage eventhough the Church says its wrong, and many Catholic MPs will vote for Bill C-38 - others will not. I expect the same thing from Sikh MPs - some will support SSM, others won't. The ones who won't probably wouldn't have supported it anyway, and the ones that will probably would've done it anyway. Sikhs aren't drones that do whatever some guy half a world away tells them to do.<br /> <br /> If anyone did any research into Sikhism in Canada, they would find that in our country there has been a significant split between conservative and progressive Sikh factions. I mean, it is against the Sikh religion to drink alcohol, or smoke, or (for men) to cut their hair, but I know a lot of them that do. Also, in Sikhism it ha always been traditional to eat in the gurdwara sitting on the floor, but some Canadian Sikhs a few years ago, wishing to accomodate the elderly and disabled, began putting chairs at the table in the gurdwara. Some gurdwaras did it, others didn't and it caused a huge divide between conservative and progressive Sikhs. The progressive Sikhs in Canada are some of the most progressive in the world (it seems we have that impact on religions), and I know many who have no problem with SSM.

[BC Mary]

<br /> <br /> Perturbed unnecessarily:<br /> <br /> I don't think you read what I said. No foreign person's demands should be allowed to change the Canadian Parliament's process of defining and protecting Canadian rights. We're pretty darn good at doing it for ourselves. <br /> <br /> It's sad that you try to twist this into some sort of attack upon Sikhs in Canada.

[samuel]

<br /> <br /> I'll be more blunt and couldn't care less if it's twisted into racism...<br /> <br /> This is the result of over zealous politicians opening the flood gates of immigration prior to elections (in order to win elections) WITHOUT studying the impact that these foreign ethnicities can have on Canadian society's beleifs and of course politics.<br /> <br /> This has been LIBERAL tactics for over a decade and we are once again faced with same pre campaign "promise". We have decided to stop having babies and I'm all for immigration, but damn these bastard irresponsible politicians should diversify their choices of originating countries.<br /> <br /> We are talking about 1 million Sikhs in Canada folks, that's 3% of the population already! That's one of the reasons Québec wrestled immigration away from the feds, these idiots don't know what the hell they're doing.

[Calumny]

Oh, I think they do, Samuel. <br /> <br /> It's just that the agenda being followed may not coincide with what most Canadians might see as their best interests.<br /> <br /> Putting aside for the moment the usual rationale we receive as to why we need 3 or so hundred thousand new immigrants each year, there are a few facts that just haven't gibed with me for quite awhile.<br /> <br /> It's very difficult to see how on one hand we're told we can't afford to maintain parts of our social infrastructure and on the other we continue to place pressure on that infrastructure by allowing a rather significant inflow of immigration each year.<br /> <br /> It's also difficult to understand why when unemployment figures have remained fairly steady for quite a few years, we need the levels of immigration we seen throughout those years, particularly as many of the skills possessed by a number of immigrants aren't productively utilized upon their arrival.<br /> <br /> I agree that there is much more to the immigration story than the line given to Canadians, whether that be in respect of garnering votes, maintaining a large enough pool of available labour to make organization by labour difficult or whatever else.<br /> <br /> I also agree that immigration should, in terms of numbers and origin, be more a provincial and municipal matter, as these are the levels that end up dealing with most of the issues that arise.<br /> <br /> I would have the same concerns if all immigration was of U.K. or other European origin. Similarly, while I think there is much of value in other cultures that can only improve Canadian society, I'm not interested in seeing an influx of any group, whether Brits, French, German Sikh, etc., arriving in Canada and deciding it should reflect what they're accustomed to, or demanding that it do the same. Nor do I see any reason to accede to demands of this nature.<br /> <br /> I certainly wouldn't be moving anywhere myself and expecting that the residents change their beliefs and lifestyles to accomodate my own, so I see nothing wrong in expecting the same courtesy from others.<br /> <br />

[Dino]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel] <br /> <br /> I'll be more blunt and couldn't care less if it's twisted into racism...<br /> <br /> This is the result of over zealous politicians opening the flood gates of immigration prior to elections (in order to win elections) WITHOUT studying the impact that these foreign ethnicities can have on Canadian society's beleifs and of course politics.<br /> <br /> This has been LIBERAL tactics for over a decade and we are once again faced with same pre campaign "promise". We have decided to stop having babies and I'm all for immigration, but damn these bastard irresponsible politicians should diversify their choices of originating countries.<br /> <br /> We are talking about 1 million Sikhs in Canada folks, that's 3% of the population already! That's one of the reasons Québec wrestled immigration away from the feds, these idiots don't know what the hell they're doing.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I don't think you are being racist. I would like to mention that not all immigrants as in my parents (one's from zimbabwe and the other malawi) are social conservatives. I guess I can say I can see from both sides since I was born here and my parent are immigrant canadians. One thing that you have right Samuel is that the Liberals use immigration for there political purposes. When my parents arrived here Trudeau was in office and it was like "Liberals are good any other political party is bad." And that stays with them but it's not as if they are stupid.They happen to be NDP not Liberal.My mom was saying that immigration in this country is not just to make Canada "multicultural" it's also to keep the Liberal party in office.<br /> <br /> But if anyone who reads this thinks immigration should stop then I suggest you start having babies because our country will go down hill without more people.<br /> <br /> Personally no one should think immigration is a bad thing because if you were to ask all immigrants in Canada too stop working for one month let's see how well Canada would function without doctors for example.<br /> <br /> (By the way all sikh MP's support gay marriage. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'> )

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Calumny] Oh, I think they do, Samuel. <br /> <br /> It's just that the agenda being followed may not coincide with what most Canadians might see as their best interests.<br /> <br /> Putting aside for the moment the usual rationale we receive as to why we need 3 or so hundred thousand new immigrants each year, there are a few facts that just haven't gibed with me for quite awhile.<br /> <br /> It's very difficult to see how on one hand we're told we can't afford to maintain parts of our social infrastructure and on the other we continue to place pressure on that infrastructure by allowing a rather significant inflow of immigration each year.<br /> <br /> It's also difficult to understand why when unemployment figures have remained fairly steady for quite a few years, we need the levels of immigration we seen throughout those years, particularly as many of the skills possessed by a number of immigrants aren't productively utilized upon their arrival.<br /> <br /> I agree that there is much more to the immigration story than the line given to Canadians, whether that be in respect of garnering votes, maintaining a large enough pool of available labour to make organization by labour difficult or whatever else.<br /> <br /> I also agree that immigration should, in terms of numbers and origin, be more a provincial and municipal matter, as these are the levels that end up dealing with most of the issues that arise.<br /> <br /> I would have the same concerns if all immigration was of U.K. or other European origin. Similarly, while I think there is much of value in other cultures that can only improve Canadian society, I'm not interested in seeing an influx of any group, whether Brits, French, German Sikh, etc., arriving in Canada and deciding it should reflect what they're accustomed to, or demanding that it do the same. Nor do I see any reason to accede to demands of this nature.<br /> <br /> I certainly wouldn't be moving anywhere myself and expecting that the residents change their beliefs and lifestyles to accomodate my own, so I see nothing wrong in expecting the same courtesy from others.<br /> <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> Hi Calumny. I think winning elections is part of it....and our birthrate is low, not that theey've done anything to improve that, and we used to have 20 million just 40 years ago and things were fine.<br /> <br /> Also, there is no conspiracy theory necessary. Paul Martin has said that "multilculturalism is where the world is going--as we move towards a borderless world."<br /> <br /> Obviously some countries care much more than others about their border, but how can you reason with politiciains who believe in corporations, not countries? They are purposely ruining the solidarity of the populations of all western nations.<br /> <br /> I personally think we should slow immigration down, and it wouldn't bother me if immigrants came mostly from Europe. I'm not saying this is necessarily the only way it can work, but say if most people came from Britain, how could it bother me? It would almost be refreshing to meet people who aren't illiterate in one of our official languages when they get to Canada.

[samuel]

I will clarify my point because I strongly believe in it. Perturbe's post is very very disturbing. Here we have Canadian MPs, 6 no less, consulting with some foreign religious fundamentalist guru. I STRONGLY OBJECT !<br /> <br /> If anyone thinks this Baba's voice will not be heard in Ottawa and will not find its way in Canadian policy, they are as gullible as those who believe no problem exists in Québec.<br /> <br /> I don't personally know any Sihks and this is not an ethnic problem, this is an abused and mismanaged immigration problem.

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= Samuel]Here we have Canadian MPs, 6 no less, consulting with some foreign religious fundamentalist guru. I STRONGLY OBJECT !<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> I didn't realize Jesus Christ was Canadian. Good for him!<br />

[samuel]

[QUOTE BY= Dr Caleb]I didn't realize Jesus Christ was Canadian. Good for him!<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> I don't know what that's supposed to mean DC, but you can look forward to the BLOC addressing this in Parliament. I have friends who are gay (both genders) and my tax dollars will not be used to fund consultations with homophobic foreign fundamentalist Babas, no way.

[Spud]

Yes JC was a Canadian <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'> <br /> How do I know? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/confused.gif' alt='Confused'> <br /> Found him in the garden <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <br /> Fundamentalist Baba <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <br /> Love that <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'>

[Spud]

Yes JC was a Canadian <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'> <br /> How do I know? <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/confused.gif' alt='Confused'> <br /> Found him in the garden <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <br /> Fundamentalist Baba <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/mrgreen.gif' alt='Mr. Green'> <br /> Love that <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'>

[Dino]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed]Hi Calumny. I think winning elections is part of it....and our birthrate is low, not that theey've done anything to improve that, and we used to have 20 million just 40 years ago and things were fine.<br /> <br /> Also, there is no conspiracy theory necessary. Paul Martin has said that "multilculturalism is where the world is going--as we move towards a borderless world."<br /> <br /> Obviously some countries care much more than others about their border, but how can you reason with politiciains who believe in corporations, not countries? They are purposely ruining the solidarity of the populations of all western nations.<br /> <br /> I personally think we should slow immigration down, and it wouldn't bother me if immigrants came mostly from Europe. I'm not saying this is necessarily the only way it can work, but say if most people came from Britain, how could it bother me? It would almost be refreshing to meet people who aren't illiterate in one of our official languages when they get to Canada.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> So it's the language that bothers you? I quite sure if immigrants come from India,Zimbabwe,Hong Kong etc. They speak english and I'm pretty sure Pertrubed that they aren't illiterate. you say you wouldn't mind having simply people from europe coming here,well I'm quite sure Russians, Romanians and Italians can't speak as good of english as people from India, Zimbabwe and Hong Kong......(and pertrubed says she isn't racist <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' alt='Rolling Eyes'> )

[samuel]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed]I personally think we should slow immigration down, and it wouldn't bother me if immigrants came mostly from Europe. I'm not saying this is necessarily the only way it can work, but say if most people came from Britain, how could it bother me? It would almost be refreshing to meet people who aren't illiterate in one of our official languages when they get to Canada.[/QUOTE]<br /> I thought I was being blunt <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/lol.gif' alt='Laughing Out Loud'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/lol.gif' alt='Laughing Out Loud'> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/lol.gif' alt='Laughing Out Loud'>