[Dr Caleb]

Read <a href='http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-ali16dec16,0,6739064,print.story?coll=la-home-commentary'>This.</a><br /> <br /> They deny the Holocaust, because they are never told it happened. That article pretty much sums up why I don't even bother to reply to some 'deniers'. They mix the propaganda from the Islamofacists and the Zionists up, and wonder why it doesn't make any sense. It saddens me that people try so hard to deny that it happened thay they'll discount the deaths of thousands or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands - simply to try to put us on that slippery slope to whitle down the 'numbers' to then say it never happened.<br /> <br /> The deniers never can offer any sort of verifiable evidence to put a 'chink' in the official version, and try to subvert it using the inconsistencies of propaganga to prove their point.<br /> <br /> But it happened. Nothing any of them say will ever overshadow the brutal efficiency the Nazis used, nor the Nazis penache for documentation. If nothing else, the Holocaust is well documented, and the documents are administered by the International Committee of the Red Cross.<br /> <br /> What the Islamofacists are using is exactally the same style propaganda the Nazis used against the Jews. If Muslims were taught anything other than the Q'uran, like 'history' for example, then they would see thier masters for what they are.

[Diogenes]

And when ya finish that read this!<br /> <br /> http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=3&ar=15 <br /> there's no business like Shoa business'<br /> <br /> Yup and all that is as true as ya wants it to be and now Israel is doing to the Palestinians <br /> what was done to them (after a fashion)<br /> ‘Mans inhumanity to man’ some apologists calls it <br /> Yup that’s it! That closes the conversation!<br /> We won’t be having any more conversations about that now, will we?<br /> And so it goes.<br /> Most of what I’ve read does not deny, What it does do is bring balance to an out of whack accounting.<br /> And that hurts the purse of those who profit.<br /> Millions upon millions have be murdered or holocaust-ed by this that or the other check this out too<br /> <br /> http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0%2C7340%2CL-3342999%2C00.html <br />

[rearguard]

And after reading all that, read this:<br /> <br /> <a href="http://mathaba.net/news/?x=547346">The Truth About The Tehran Holocaust Conference - By One Who Was There</a>

[Diogenes]

Thank for the link rearguard.<br /> <br /> <br /> I am never so amazed as when otherwise sane and rational people go off their rocker with vitriol irrationality on THEIR pet belief (system)/Memetic phrase <br /> <br /> Such a Memetic phrase* appeared and festered once again when this took place; “Enter the President of Iran. The name Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was all but unknown in the West until he called for Israel to be wiped off the map. True or false? The first part is true; the second part is a lie. What he actually said was that the Zionist entity Israel would go the same way as the Soviet Union, it would simply cease to exist, and all its citizens, Gentile and Jew, would be much better for it. It may be that this claim is wishful thinking, but it is certainly not genocidal.”<br /> <br /> All of this memetic weak-minded poo generally gives rise to the sword of outrage to be drawn as is the case with all negative emotionally driven acts and the first casualty is reason.<br /> Blind passion was once a defence of the cuckolded, no longer. Blind passion now is the excuse to abandon reason. <br /> Those so committed by passionate outrage are rather easy to play, a fact well known to those who easily stir the emotions of the believer. People who hold such passion are ready tools of the manipulators <br /> <br /> <br /> “Memetic methodology*<br /> <br /> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme#Memetic_methodology <br /> Memetic methodology<br /> *Memetics often takes concepts from the theory of evolution (especially population genetics) and applies them to human culture. Memetics also uses mathematical models to try to explain many very controversial subjects such as religion and political systems. Principal criticisms of memetics include the claim that memetics ignores established advances in the fields (such as sociology, cognitive psychology, social psychology, etc.) most relevant to the claims and methodologies of memetics.<br /> <br /> Memeticists generate much memetic terminology by prepending 'mem(e)-' to an existing, usually biological, term or by putting 'mem(e)' in place of 'gen(e)' in various terms. Examples include: meme pool, memotype, memetic engineer, meme-complex.<br /> <br /> [edit]<br /> Some concepts of memetics<br /> <br /> The term memetic association refers to the idea that memes herd. For example, a meme for blue jeans includes memes for trouser-flies, riveted clothing, blue dye, cotton clothing, belt-loops and double-sewn seams. In this way, groups of memes can operate symbiotically (to use a biological analogy) in the sense that they act for their mutual benefit/survival.<br /> <br /> The phrase memetic drift (formed by analogy to genetic drift) refers to the process of a meme changing as it replicates between one person to another. Memetic drift increases when meme transmission occurs in an awkward way. Very few memes show strong memetic inertia (the characteristic of a meme to manifest in the same way and to have the same impact regardless of who receives or transmits the meme). Memetic inertia increases when the meme transfers along with mnemonic devices, such as a rhyme, to preserve the memory of the meme prior to its transmission. See Telephone (game) for one example of memetic drift.”<br /> <br />

[Diogenes]

Serendipity serves me well<br /> <br /> http://www.rense.com/general74/revis.htm<br /> I can only imagine the range of emotion that may be felt by those brave and honest enough to absorb what is written and presented at the address above.<br /> <br /> I would hope Epiphany garners the most reaction.<br /> <br /> "They are saying that the tens of thousands of allied soldiers who released the remaining vitims of the holocaust from the exterminations camps, one of whom was my father, are all liars . Its makes it very easy to see who the real liars are.<br /> Brent "<br /> with the amount of respect due the above Spurious and Memetic claims I am taken to questioningly remark, exactly who asserted the "tens of thouasands who release..." are liars?<br /> Liar is not a word I bandy about due to the heaviness of the it.<br /> It appears that the true liars are the ones pointed to in the article to be found at rense:those who profit <br /> Make no mistake!<br /> that built apon lies is liable <br /> Yhose who believe and repeat the lie are not the liars, they are the dupes of the liars

[Milton]

Great posts, warms my heart, thanks y'all.

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= Diogenes] <br /> ‘Mans inhumanity to man’ some apologists calls it <br /> Yup that’s it! That closes the conversation!<br /> We won’t be having any more conversations about that now, will we? <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> On the contrary! Like the gentlemen in Rearguard's article, I'm not one to see the invivible hand of Zionist control everywhere, but I am reminded of a move Germany made back in the spring - one that is sure to enrage the Zionist Profiteers. <br /> <br /> <a href='http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2142206,00.html'>Linkie!</a><br /> <br /> I'm sure they finally opened the archives so that people could once and for all have access to the true scope of a genocide. The Zionists would like us to not question any narrative of the Holocaust, the revisionists would like to downplay the whole thing. And somewhere in the middle, is the truth.

[rearguard]

What disgusts me most is the hypocrisy of genocide. There's so much talk about how the Jews suffered, which is true to at least some extent, however the suffering of Jews becomes nonsensical when compared to the suffering of everyone during that horrible war. The Jews are people, just like any other, and a lot of people suffered including those innocents who lived in Germany at the time. Everyone suffered horribly, some more than others, and the boundary or importance assigned is artificial in nature and has clearly been used as a scam.<br /> <br /> For example, have we forgotten the genocide of the Japanese at the hands of the Americans? Oh but that was self-defense, ignoring the impossibility of defense against babies, children, and old men who had nothing at all to do with the fighting.<br /> <br /> There's little we can do for those already dead, however what I see going on in the world right now, unless stopped, will only result in many more deaths of innocents, and we bear witness to this fact everyday.<br /> <br /> Let's talk about the current Holocaust in progress, some of which is the direct result of Zionist policies!<br /> <br />

[Diogenes]

response to DC<br /> <br /> the Holocaust, the revisionists. From what I see emerging is the labels got switched. <br /> The revisionists were the ones who created what very well be the myth of a holocaust, or at least how the deaths occurred.<br /> Many of the writings I read indicate the original events were revised to suit the Zionist agenda, and that is where the “revisionists” had their birth.<br /> There are those who disbelieve what the investigative scholars present fully documented and do believe there existed an ethnic based Shoah.<br /> <br /> Perhaps there is a middle, I however see the wholesale rejection you site as the dominant at this point in time. Only further investigation brought into the clear light of day, as the saying goes, will any possibility of accuracy come to light.<br /> <br /> I lack the skill to place a “linlkie” but can and will offer an address <br /> <br /> http://ecclesia.org/truth/debt.html <br /> <br /> So, what we see here is the modern mortgage system and its origin. It came out of the Babylonian Talmud, and it was adopted by the merchants of the world, the banking system, etc. Therefore, it is fully revealed that he who engages in a mortgage is yoked with those of the world. <br /> <br /> “Ruling during an era of socio-economic change from 1272 to 1307, king Edward was want to legislate accordingly, and Edward was weary of the Jews. Thus, he issued laws forbidding the Jews from holding real property, denying them usurious practice and ordering them to wear distinctive dress and identifying badges.” <br /> <br /> So Hitler did nothing new when he forbade Jews from owning land and making them wear distinctive dress and identifying marks. On its face, it would appear that he was repeating history, but: <br /> <br /> “Even as he restricted Jewish money lenders, Edward expanded the universe of non-Jewish money lending. He had before him a model of secured debt contracts, enforced for centuries by the royal courts for the royal users.”<br /> <br /> There is a Maxim; I am lead to believe, of law which I will express in my own fashion. It speaks of coming to court with dirty hands/clean hands (and we ain’t talkin’ washed here, ok?) <br /> What galls me is the many always seem to suffer for the few.<br />

[Diogenes]

ps to DC<br /> <br /> “Like the gentlemen in Rearguard's article, I'm not one to see the invivible hand of Zionist control everywhere,…”<br /> I have no idea as to what you and the one you refer to “see” or don’t see, personally I haven’t seen ‘invisible’ with or without hallucinogens; I do however see what is exposed by those I referred to in the post prior to this.<br /> That we don’t see or believe or do not believe has no bearing on its existence.<br /> <br /> Pragmatist, I am told, solve problems in a realistic way which suits the present conditions rather than obeying fixed theories, ideas or rules. <br /> Those falsely claiming pragmatism seem to selectively apply. <br /> <br /> <br /> From all outward appearances it is those claiming to be the sons and daughter of Judea making the most noise and the ones who created the holocaust and then cleverly attached a coin slot on it.<br /> <br /> <br /> to RG<br /> “Let's talk about the current Holocaust in progress, some of which is the direct result of Zionist policies!”<br /> <br /> <br /> Yes please, let’s do talk about it! <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />

[rearguard]

Here's some of that genocide hypocrisy I was complaining about, and there's plenty more of be found just about everywhere you look.<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/holocaust-jew-accused-of-war-crimes/2005/07/10/1120934125780.html">Holocaust Jew accused of war crimes</a><br /> <br /> <i>It has perplexed legal minds in both countries. Poland says genocide is genocide whether a Jew or a Nazi committed it, while many Israelis see rough justice in the 1500 German deaths for which Mr Morel is alleged to be responsible.<br /> <br /> Now the Israeli Government has said that Mr Morel will not be sent back to stand trial in Poland under any circumstances.</i>

[Diogenes]

http://www.rense.com/general74/lik.htm <br /> <br /> The Likud Criminal Gang<br /> Behind 911 & <br /> The 'War On Terror<br /> <br /> This is not an opinion - this is what the evidence reveals: <br /> <br /> http://www.iamthewitness.com/video/ForBollynsSpeech11Nov2006_DancingIsraelis.wmv <br /> 2.4 mb <br /> <br /> The Zionists justify their knowledge of the attack by claiming they had followed the Arab terrorists and discovered their dastardly plans. <br /> <br /> The Zionists claim to have warned a few government employees of the upcoming attack, but they never bothered to tell their friends in the news organizations.”<br /> <br /> So why am I placing this here? <br /> To illustrate the “chosen people” ain’t no angels either. Despicable acts can be preformed, and are, by any race.<br /> Holocausts, acts of terror, <br /> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&hs=OAV&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Israelis+%2B+king+David+Hotel&spell=1 <br /> wrong is wrong and also a matter of scale.<br /> <br /> <br /> Did the holocaust happen as we are lead to believe is a legitimate question deserving of investigation, investigation hampered by the memetic labels denier and revisionist, and who chooses to use the colour of language to hamper , or halt, investigations into dogma, and why?<br />

[rearguard]

Holocaust denier = anyone who asks serious questions and researches the claims surrounding the so-called "Holocaust" for *any* reason, even out of legitimate historical curiosity.<br /> <br /> Revisionist Historian = same as above, despite the fact that historians have been rewritting history for many centuries following new discoveries and reinterpretation s of the available data.<br /> <br /> Speaking of memetics, many people today have no idea what the word "holocaust" actually means, other than the extermination of Jews.<br /> <br /> The redefinition of "holocaust" with a capital 'H' came about only around 1970 following the TV mini series by the same name. If anyone has a dictionary published before 1970, the word holocaust will not include the extermination of Jews in its definition. <br /> <br />

[Dr Caleb]

And you are correct - 'Deniers' is a completely wrong term. Anyone denying the blatatently obvious should be pitied, like those dening that man has landed on the moon.<br /> <br /> 'Revisionists' is the correct term.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Diogenes] ps to DC<br /> <br /> “Like the gentlemen in Rearguard's article, I'm not one to see the invivible hand of Zionist control everywhere,…”<br /> <br /> I have no idea as to what you and the one you refer to “see” or don’t see, personally I haven’t seen ‘invisible’ with or without hallucinogens; I do however see what is exposed by those I referred to in the post prior to this.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> From the article rearguard linked to:<br /> <br /> <blockquote>Although like everyone else at this conference I have no illusions about Jewish/Zionist power or mendacity I dont see the hidden Jewish hand behind every event on the world stage, but there can be no denying the fact that International Zionism and its allies do want war.</blockquote><br /> <br /> This is what I was referring to. I've seen all the people saying things like 'CanWest is a Zionist controlled media outlet' simply because the Asper family owns is, and they Jewish. Having know many Jews in my lifetime, I find that one does not follow the other. I distinguish between 'Jews' and 'Zionists', just as I know not all Christians are not 'Neocons'.<br /> <br /> Myself, being a person who resorts to logic in my arguments, can see the flaws in the arguments of others - so when some (for lack of better terms, and not referring to yourself Dio) 'conspiracy nut' tells me that my life is controlled by Zionists, I laugh. Of course, some of my life may be influenced by people who are Jews, through the media I read, or the clothes I buy - but that does not automatically mean they are Zionist. That also does not discount that some of them may be.<br /> <br /> [QUOTE BY= Diogenes]<br /> That we don’t see or believe or do not believe has no bearing on its existence.<br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Believing also does not make it exist.<br /> <br /> <blockquote><br /> QUOTE Diogenes<br /> Pragmatist, I am told, solve problems in a realistic way which suits the present conditions rather than obeying fixed theories, ideas or rules. <br /> Those falsely claiming pragmatism seem to selectively apply. <br /> </blockquote><br /> <br /> Then I am a pragmatist. I cannot give credence to what I do not know exists. I solve problems based on what is known, and am willing to be found incorrect as new evidence is discovered. Call it 'selective application' if you will, but assuming 'miracles happen' is a bad logical process.<br /> <br /> <blockquote><br /> QUOTE Diogenes<br /> From all outward appearances it is those claiming to be the sons and daughter of Judea making the most noise and the ones who created the holocaust and then cleverly attached a coin slot on it.<br /> </blockquote><br /> <br /> And those are the ones that should be 'outed'. As the old joke goes, 'it's the 1% of good lawyers who give the other 99% a bad name', then it's the people still playing 'victim' of the holocaust for profit that diminish the true victims of the holocaust.<br /> <br /> <blockquote><br /> QUOTE Diogenes<br /> Did the holocaust happen as we are lead to believe is a legitimate question deserving of investigation, <br /> </blockquote><br /> <br /> As above, whether it happened isn't the question. That is undeniable. 15 million people, 6 million of them Jewish, died in Nazi death camps. That is documented fact. In my link above, the IRC has the records, documenting these people from their arrests, their deportations to the order for their deaths. I believe that the German government finlally allowed the release of these records in order that people both acknowledge the facts, and to stop both the revisionists, and the Zionists agendas.<br /> <br /> Revisionist use the fact that every year there are fewer and fewer eyewitnesses to tell their story. I knew some of those eyewitnesses, a very nice old lady who had a tattoo on her forearm, who told me what she saw and how she survived. And stories from my ex-wife's family, who lived in Germany during WW2, and all the things they saw from the other perspective - being a christian in Germany in WW2. And the greatest co-incidence of my life (so far), is that my ex's aunt worked for the Jewish lady when they both came to Canada after the war.<br /> <br /> The Beeb did a really great series on WWII in the 70's called 'The World at War', and also recently did a newer version of the Holocaust narrative - both with archival records and historical documentation. <br /> <br /> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4436275.stm<br /> <br /> If you, or anyone, have any doubts that the holocaust happened, I'll gladly throw them on DVD and send them to you. Email me a post box, and I'll send them to anyone.<br /> <br /> <blockquote><br /> investigation hampered by the memetic labels denier and revisionist, and who chooses to use the colour of language to hamper , or halt, investigations into dogma, and why?<br /> </blockquote><br /> <br /> Again, there are three possibilities. The survivors (the ones without agendas) will scream at the top of their lungs "Never Again!" because they lived it (and despite their cries, things like the Medak Pocket, Rwanda and Dharfur still happen, because we don't listen to them). The revisionists don't want you to find out the facts, like there never was any 'Jewish fat soap rendering' or 'human skin lampshades', because those are the propaganda they use to prove their point that the Holocaust narrative is 'factually inconsistant'; and finally the same applies to the 'coin slot guilt operators'. If you find out there never was any 'soap made from Jews', their train of sympathy ends.

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= rearguard]<br /> The redefinition of "holocaust" with a capital 'H' came about only around 1970 following the TV mini series by the same name. If anyone has a dictionary published before 1970, the word holocaust will not include the extermination of Jews in its definition. <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Do you have a pre-1970 dictionary to verify this, or are you repeating propaganda of the revisionists?