[Dr Caleb]

I thought they were talking new C-130J's from McDonnel Douglas/Boeing to replace the Hercs? C-8 Galaxy - now we could use 2 of those!<br /> <br /> Antonov's would be cool, but we'll just be another dog (See: Voodoo) that no one else has if we go with the C-17's. Or, they'll start the contract, and the new Liberal government in 4 years will cancel it for another 5 billion $ loss.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Dr Caleb] I thought they were talking new C-130J's from McDonnel Douglas/Boeing to replace the Hercs? C-8 Galaxy - now we could use 2 of those!<br /> <br /> Antonov's would be cool, but we'll just be another dog (See: Voodoo) that no one else has if we go with the C-17's. Or, they'll start the contract, and the new Liberal government in 4 years will cancel it for another 5 billion $ loss.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> The C 130J is from Lockheed Martin IIRC and the planes they are pushing Canada to buy are the Ilyushin Il-76 TD-90s from a plant in Uzbekistan. The Il-76 is a bit smaller than the Antonov but the Il-76 is back in production in a modernized version--cruder than the C-17 but more spacious and cheaper. Russian stuff seems to be quantity, affordability over quality although some of their stuff is very high quality and more durable though not as long lasting--Mil 17 helicopter is 10 times cheaper than much larger Chinook though it holds fewer soldiers. <br /> <br /> Apparently a civvie version of the Mil-17 is used on Alberta oil rigs. Also, a B.C. company creates a modified, westernized version of the Mil-17.<br /> <br /> Page on C-17: <a href="http://www.sfu.ca/casr/bg-airlift-c17.htm">here</a><br /> <br /> Page about Il-76 and Mil 17 medium lift helicopters: <a href="http://www.sfu.ca/casr/bg-airlift-update.htm">here</a> (size comparison with Hercules is impressive, Russian planes are so huge.)<br /> <br /> Pages about Il-76: <a href="http://www.sfu.ca/casr/bg-airlift-il76.htm">here</a><br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.sfu.ca/casr/bg-airlift-il76-3.htm">here</a><br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.sfu.ca/casr/bg-airlift-il76-4.htm">here</a><br /> <br /> I think they should lease the Russian helicopters to allow them to send them back after the Afghanistan mission and save money and buy either the C-17 or Il-76, or maybe lease Il-76s until the Airbus 400M is ready:<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.sfu.ca/casr/bg-airlift-a400m.htm">here</a><br /> <br />

[Dr Caleb]

I don't disagree. (But McDonnell Douglas was bought by Boeing <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/smile.gif' alt='Smile'> <a href='http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=McDonnell%20Douglas%20C-17%20Globemaster%20III&distinct_entry=true'>Globemaster link</a> I've been in one of those puppies, and it's astounding!<br /> <br /> I have seen the Mil-17 in action. Take everything from the cabin back, and the engine down and remove it. Nothing can lift as much, and it's great for logging, without having to build roads.<br /> <br /> The M-I-26 is also used in Alberta forestry too.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Dr Caleb] I don't disagree. (But McDonnell Douglas was bought by Boeing <a href='http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=McDonnell%20Douglas%20C-17%20Globemaster%20III&distinct_entry=true'>Globemaster link</a> I've been in one of those puppies, and it's astounding!<br /> <br /> I have seen the Mil-17 in action. Take everything from the cabin back, and the engine down and remove it. Nothing can lift as much, and it's great for logging, without having to build roads.<br /> <br /> The M-I-26 is also used in Alberta forestry too.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> Yeah I know what you meant I think I was just referring to the fact IIRC you mentioned the C 130J was a Boeing but it is a Lockheed Martin I believe.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Dr Caleb] I don't disagree. (But McDonnell Douglas was bought by Boeing <a href='http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=McDonnell%20Douglas%20C-17%20Globemaster%20III&distinct_entry=true'>Globemaster link</a> I've been in one of those puppies, and it's astounding!<br /> <br /> I have seen the Mil-17 in action. Take everything from the cabin back, and the engine down and remove it. Nothing can lift as much, and it's great for logging, without having to build roads.<br /> <br /> The M-I-26 is also used in Alberta forestry too.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> It is cool you have experience with these things...

[Dr Caleb]

[QUOTE BY= Perturbed]<br /> Yeah I know what you meant I think I was just referring to the fact IIRC you mentioned the C 130J was a Boeing but it is a Lockheed Martin I believe.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Yep, I made a boo boo. C130J is indeen an LM product. Yet another reason not to buy one. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/wink.gif' alt='Wink'><br />

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Dr Caleb] [QUOTE BY= Perturbed]<br /> Yeah I know what you meant I think I was just referring to the fact IIRC you mentioned the C 130J was a Boeing but it is a Lockheed Martin I believe.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> Yep, I made a boo boo. C130J is indeen an LM product. Yet another reason not to buy one. <br /> [/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/biggrin.gif' alt='Big Grin'> Yeah, unless we can play them off against Airbus to get the best deal....if we lease Russian planes we could buy these when they are ready:<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.airbusmilitary.com/">here</a><br /> <br /> Looks pretty sweet! The dual role tactical/strategic Airbus 400M airlifter has IIRC 8 blades instead of 6 on its propellors making it much quieter inside for soldiers and giving it great lift capability.<br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.airbusmilitary.com/gallery/a400mjungletakeoff1024.jpg">here</a><br /> <br /> ---Looks pretty cool. <img align=absmiddle src='images/smilies/cool.gif' alt='Cool'>

[Dr Caleb]

Indeed! Very pretty. I notice a 'scimitar' blade as well. Much less noise, and better fuel usage.<br /> <br /> Leasing or buying Russian does sound cost effective, until the Airbus are in production. Which means no one will do it.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Dr Caleb] Indeed! Very pretty. I notice a 'scimitar' blade as well. Much less noise, and better fuel usage.<br /> <br /> Leasing or buying Russian does sound cost effective, until the Airbus are in production. Which means no one will do it.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> What Canada did with Chinook:<br /> <br /> 1 - owned from 1974-1991, sold to Dutch to save money, needed them in Afghanistan and they were unavailable for timely purchase so Canada goes without.<br /> <br /> 2 - What Canada will do this time:<br /> <br /> #1 - refuse to lease or buy Russian, <br /> <br /> #2 - buy the Boeing C-17s, <br /> <br /> #3 - then sell them to the Dutch, <br /> <br /> #4 - then need them after they are sold, <br /> <br /> #5 - then realize they are out of production,<br /> <br /> #6 - then try to hitch rides on American, Australian or British c-17s that were previously sold OR,<br /> <br /> #7 - finally give in and buy or lease Russian aircraft.<br /> <br /> #8 - then finally buy the Airbus A400M, after paying 1 billion in cancellation fees on an order for the C130J.

[Perturbed]

[QUOTE BY= Dr Caleb] Indeed! Very pretty. I notice a 'scimitar' blade as well. Much less noise, and better fuel usage.<br /> <br /> Leasing or buying Russian does sound cost effective, until the Airbus are in production. Which means no one will do it.[/QUOTE]<br /> <br /> <br /> Interesting about the blades. I think one of the advantages of prop aircraft for life is they are so quiet compared to jets and you can't hear them coming very well. <br /> <br /> Here in Toronto I have even seen the older C-130 Hercules the CF has and one flew over the bridge I was crossing. You couldn't hear the engines at all until it flew overhead practically and even then, it was a low drone. The propellers barely looked like they were spinning fast enough to keep the plane in the air. The plane was 40 years old too and it was so quiet!<br />