[Guest]

Celtic?

[Angus McCracken]

Perturbed, do you think I'm trying to put history on trial? Unfortunately many people today think like that. On one side of the coin there are people who want to hold the actions of people's ancestors against them, and then on the other side there are people who dismiss the 'accusations of history' outright. This isn't a trial, it's a discussion.

You bring up the point of democratic support. There was democratic support for the invasion of Iraq in the United States. Does that make what the United States did right? Does that justify the actions and policies of the American administration? Of course not. Democratic support in this case is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm not comparing the current situation of Iraq to the settlement of Canada by the British. You brought up the comparison yourself. Those are two different scenarios. My point was that understanding the past helps us to deal with problems/challenges in the future. That is what studying history is all about. You learn from your mistakes and mistakes is the word I used in my post, not crimes which made you think that I was putting history on trial or attempting to reinvision history for some reason. You did that yourself in your original post by claiming that we merely settled the country unopposed. That was a revision of history.

We can look at our ancestor's past actions and consider them in today's light and understand that if they were committed today it would constitue a crime or be undemocractic. You make a very good point, that a lot of it was about survival. But a lot of it wasn't. You fail to take into account the other side's view of our history, which is a mistake most people make when studying history. And many would argue that's one way in which history repeats itself. Not always the best approach to building trust between cultures.

At the end of the day (and it is the end of the day believe it or not) we would both agree that there is great value in our history, which is the point I belive we both tried to stress. The challenge is to make the rest of the country realise this as well. Which was one of the points of this article. Our inability as a country to build bridges between the main or founding cultures of this country is part of the reason why we find ourselves in this current state of affairs.

[Guest]

I'll make a list over the next few weeks and put it up. Just about all the fluff written about Mulroney is an example, as is the stuff written by Kinsella. The stuff doesn't hold up against the light of what has been exposed today.

My local library is small but I can't believe the political garbage that loads the shelves. Within 10 years I wouldn't be surprised if the librarian sells or trashes the stuff.

Now, before you think I'm a maurading saracen type character, ready to burn down the library of Alexandria, I'll remind you that the library moves books out because they don't get taken out. Simple as that. Use it, or lose it.

[Spud]

Ah,Perturbed,the Natives were here long before the vikings,and most probably had some contact with them.

[Perturbed]

All I was saying Angus is that to judge history by today's standards is undfair. What is seen as wrong today may have been the thing to do in the past.

As for "building bridges", I'm just not sure how to do that. Trudeau, Mulroney tried to appease separatists and it almost tore apart the country. I'd argue that "building bridges" is important, but how far can it go, and what would you do?

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The midget, Bush, and that Rumsfield deserve only to be beaten with shoes by freedom loving people everywhere.

- Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf, The Iraqi Informat

[Dave Ruston]

You can`t tell me that the colonizers didn`t know they were wrong for taking the land from aboriginals, creating 'treaties' in english which couldn`t be read by natives, and further lying to them left and right, all for personal gain. They knew they were wrong for starving them as well. No, our ancestors didn`t pass out the small pox blankets like they did you know where, but what our ancestors did was wrong, plain and simple! In any era, to cheat people is wrong!

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Dave Ruston

[Angus McCracken]

Perturbed, you're absolutely right in that judging history by today's standards would be wrong. That is what leads to revisionist history.

As for building bridges, relying on people like Trudeau or Mulroney is the biggest mistake you can make. Their method or approach was one of appeasement, not confrontation which is the only way you'll acheive anything in life, by confronting the problems they lay ahead of you.

You know our country is pretty divided; English from French, West from East, Conservatives from Liberal, Pro-American from Sovereigntist, Toronto from the rest of Canada (or Planet Earth in all actuality). Our leaders will do what they can to maintain the status quo, otherwise they'd loose their leadership.

Look at the Liberal Party, apparently (according to testimony at the Gomery Inquiry) they helped donate money to the Partis Quebecois, a party that wants to break up Canada, that wants to KEEP CANADA DIVIDED.

Cultural unity walks hand in had with Canadian sovereignty, you can't really have one without the other, and the only way to acheive one is to acheive the other. And since Liberal and Conservative politicians could care less about sovereignty, do you think they'll care about cultural unity?

[Guest]

Agree with Dave Rushton.We swindled,stole,and who knows what else from the natives.We knew it was wrong then and it is certainly wrong now.Odd,so much of the stealing was done under the good Christian thing to do,as in,we will educate them and help them.Sheesh.What a mess we made.

[Spud]

Above post is mine.

[Dr Caleb]

Who is this "we" of whom you speak? I did no such thing, nor do I know anyone who claims to have done these deeds.


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"If you must kill a man, it costs you nothing to be polite about it." Winston Churchill

[Spud]

We means the people of Canada,as in us,as in our government whom we the people vote into office.Our politicians,our ancestors,forefathers.
This garbage is still going on.

[Guest]

Relax. There is no obvious solution.

[Perturbed]

Spud, no need to hate yourself. You're foaming at the mouth.

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The midget, Bush, and that Rumsfield deserve only to be beaten with shoes by freedom loving people everywhere.

- Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf, The Iraqi Informat

[Perturbed]

I'm not sure we're as divided as that when it comes to the average person.....but the Toronto thing is a big one. I've always gotten the sense that the rest of Canada hated our guts...I'd argue that many Torontonians are as patriotic as anyone, after refusing to give in and vote for Harper, but it seems Toronto in the past was hated for being the big fish and being too American. Now Torontonians want to be more Canadian but we're so damn diverse compared to the rest of Canada that many Torontonians may be fighting a different battle.

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The midget, Bush, and that Rumsfield deserve only to be beaten with shoes by freedom loving people everywhere.

- Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf, The Iraqi Informat

[Brother Jonathan]

<blockquote>[The Queen Mother] refused (unlike the Dutch Queen) to leave her country in very bad times.</blockquote> <p>The Germans conquered the Netherlands <i>in five days</i>. Had the same happened to Great Britain, what would the House of Windsor have done?</p> <p>Perhaps Queen Juliana thought that she might have been seen as the occupiers’ puppet? (Also, her husband Bernhard was German by birth — perhaps she feared him being viewed as a “fifth columnist” by the Dutch people?)</p>